The Genesis planet...

[Hartzilla2007]

Considering how fast Genesis forms, it is a far more logical and easier explanation that the Genesis-wave re-formed Regula.

No, it is not easier and more logical at all you are saying that the wave magically traveled to a planet that was pretty far from the detonation point and at what seemed to be light speed for some unexplained reason and still had the energy to completely reform it into a planet capable of supporting life.

 

[beamMe]

Considering how fast Genesis forms, it is a far more logical and easier explanation that the Genesis-wave re-formed Regula.

No, it is not easier and more logical at all you are saying that the wave magically traveled to a planet that was pretty far from the detonation point and at what seemed to be light speed for some unexplained reason and still had the energy to completely reform it into a planet capable of supporting life.

The damaged Enterprise reaches the Nebula pretty fast. It's not that far away.

Besides, remember the shockwave in TUC?
Same author, same director.
That shockwave travels a far greater distance in a pretty short time.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Considering how fast Genesis forms, it is a far more logical and easier explanation that the Genesis-wave re-formed Regula.

No, it is not easier and more logical at all you are saying that the wave magically traveled to a planet that was pretty far from the detonation point and at what seemed to be light speed for some unexplained reason and still had the energy to completely reform it into a planet capable of supporting life.

The damaged Enterprise reaches the Nebula pretty fast. It's not that far away.

but far away enough at the speed the wave would likely be traveling that it couldn't have reached and reformed the planet as fast as it did in the film.

Plus you have yet to explain just why the genesis wave would zero in on that particular planet.

Besides, remember the shockwave in TUC?
Same author, same director.
That shockwave travels a far greater distance in a pretty short time.

It was a shockwave from an exploding moon that may or may not have been subspace based not an energy wave that reforms a planet, it's apples and oranges

 

[beamMe]

but far away enough at the speed the wave would likely be traveling that it couldn't have reached and reformed the planet as fast as it did in the film.

Yet time enough for a completely new planet to form?

Plus you have yet to explain just why the genesis wave would zero in on that particular planet.

Who said anything about "zeroing in"? Explosions expand in all directions in a vacuum.

It was a shockwave from an exploding moon that may or may not have been subspace based not an energy wave that reforms a planet, it's apples and oranges

Yeah, but the exploding warp-core and all that anti-matter in the Reliant aren't a factor?

 

[CoveTom]

Why should this be a problem? We never get any indication that the nebula would for be a barrier for the Genesis wave in any manner. Obviously, it is going to reach Kirk's starship unless Kirk goes to warp - so just as obviously, it's going to reach a planetoid that Kirk only very recently departed at damaged impulse.

Perhaps it wasn't the Genesis Wave that was the threat Kirk was trying so desperately to warp away from. Perhaps it was just that at the painfully slow speed at which they were lumbering away from the Reliant and with shields non-functional, that the detonation of the ship's matter/antimatter reactors, whether by Genesis or otherwise, would destroy Kirk's ship.

 

[Tiberius]

The Mutara Nebula was far enough away from Regula that we never saw it when the Enterprise was at the planetoid.

Honestly.



Did you watch that movie with your eyes closed?

Oops. My bad.

Still, that shows that the nebula is some distance from the planetoid.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

but far away enough at the speed the wave would likely be traveling that it couldn't have reached and reformed the planet as fast as it did in the film.

Yet time enough for a completely new planet to form?

well seeing as genesis tends to do the planet forming thing quickly thats likely not as mush of an issue as traveling a considerable distance and not only still having the energy to reform Regula but to do so before Spock dies from radiation poisoning.

Besides the view of the Genesis planet makes it look like the planet is just forming since it looks like magma is floating around it.

Plus you have yet to explain just why the genesis wave would zero in on that particular planet.

Who said anything about "zeroing in"? Explosions expand in all directions in a vacuum.

And yet by doing so the Enterprise would have to travel pretty far away from the area to not have everyone killed by genesis if this was the case, and they didn't seem to go far time wise.

It was a shockwave from an exploding moon that may or may not have been subspace based not an energy wave that reforms a planet, it's apples and oranges

Yeah, but the exploding warp-core and all that anti-matter in the Reliant aren't a factor?

Well seeing as warp core breaches don't work the way they would have to your scenario work.

No, they aren't a factor.

Why should this be a problem? We never get any indication that the nebula would for be a barrier for the Genesis wave in any manner. Obviously, it is going to reach Kirk's starship unless Kirk goes to warp - so just as obviously, it's going to reach a planetoid that Kirk only very recently departed at damaged impulse.

Perhaps it wasn't the Genesis Wave that was the threat Kirk was trying so desperately to warp away from. Perhaps it was just that at the painfully slow speed at which they were lumbering away from the Reliant and with shields non-functional, that the detonation of the ship's matter/antimatter reactors, whether by Genesis or otherwise, would destroy Kirk's ship.

No, they specifically were running from the Genesis detonation.

 

[CoveTom]

No, they specifically were running from the Genesis detonation.

"Specifically?" Based on what? From what I recall of the dialogue, there is nothing that specifically says it is the Genesis wave that will destroy the Enterprise. Yes, they're monitoring the countdown to its detonation, but that could simply be because they know it's detonation will also simultaneously detonate the Reliant's warp core, which might be the real threat to the Enterprise's safety.

 

[RyanKCR]

No, they specifically were running from the Genesis detonation.

"Specifically?" Based on what? From what I recall of the dialogue, there is nothing that specifically says it is the Genesis wave that will destroy the Enterprise. Yes, they're monitoring the countdown to its detonation, but that could simply be because they know it's detonation will also simultaneously detonate the Reliant's warp core, which might be the real threat to the Enterprise's safety.

When Kirk looks to David after getting the time and distance report, David shakes his head. They were running from Genesis.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

No, they specifically were running from the Genesis detonation.

"Specifically?" Based on what? From what I recall of the dialogue, there is nothing that specifically says it is the Genesis wave that will destroy the Enterprise. Yes, they're monitoring the countdown to its detonation, but that could simply be because they know it's detonation will also simultaneously detonate the Reliant's warp core, which might be the real threat to the Enterprise's safety.

When Kirk looks to David after getting the time and distance report, David shakes his head. They were running from Genesis.

Plus if they were running from the warp core breach it would have been mentioned.

 

[Kemaiku]

It was a shockwave from an exploding moon that may or may not have been subspace based not an energy wave that reforms a planet, it's apples and oranges

There was also the remark about "overmining" the moon implying the Klingons were mining for something important like Dilithium.

Or the implication that the mining operation was a cover for heavy weapons development deep inside the moon, including subspace weapons, which we know were shortly after banned by the very Khitomer Accords seen at the end of the film, can't be a coincidence.

 

[beamMe]

well seeing as genesis tends to do the planet forming thing quickly thats likely not as mush of an issue as traveling a considerable distance and not only still having the energy to reform Regula but to do so before Spock dies from radiation poisoning.

Besides the view of the Genesis planet makes it look like the planet is just forming since it looks like magma is floating around it.

You know, I can accept that the Genesis Effect can cause (plant)-life to spring up pretty fast, or the release of gases that form an atmosphere which in turn, over time, will change the planet's surface.
But I can't accept that this thing can scatter a nebula then pull it together so fast, so violently that it forms a planet which then cools down within minutes.

Genesis as a central plot-element, and as it was presented in the video is far fetched enough with its ability to create life. The idea that it can speed up the processes that create planets (accumulation of mass, pressure, heat, cooling down) is too far out there for me - yes, even with Trek's matter-transporters, warp-drives...

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Besides just all the time travel episodes, we've seen episodes when time has fractured, like TNG's Timescape. Given that the Genesis Planet evolved and blew up at an accelerated rate, it would really be surprising if its formation weren't accelerated, too (as I already pointed out upthread). There's nothing more implausible about the Genesis Planet than there is in episodes like Timescape. That protomatter sure must be powerful shit, though.

 

[CoveTom]

When Kirk looks to David after getting the time and distance report, David shakes his head. They were running from Genesis.

Plus if they were running from the warp core breach it would have been mentioned.

Okay, so what you're saying is that there wasn't a "specifically" then. You're basing it on a shared look between Kirk and David, and the fact that they did not specifically mention a warp core breach. So there is no "specifically."

 

[beamMe]

When Kirk looks to David after getting the time and distance report, David shakes his head. They were running from Genesis.

Plus if they were running from the warp core breach it would have been mentioned.

Okay, so what you're saying is that there wasn't a "specifically" then. You're basing it on a shared look between Kirk and David, and the fact that they did not specifically mention a warp core breach. So there is no "specifically."

Well, they were running from the explosion of the Omega 13... I mean Genesis.
But since the Genesis device wasn't the only thing that could explode on the Reliant, they were also running from everything else that would be ignited - mainly her anti-matter tanks.

 

[CoveTom]

Well, they were running from the explosion of the Omega 13... I mean Genesis.
But since the Genesis device wasn't the only thing that could explode on the Reliant, they were also running from everything else that would be ignited - mainly her anti-matter tanks.

But that's my point. Do we know what aspect they feared would lead to their destruction? We know that the Genesis torpedo is meant to be fired at a planet and detonate and do its magic on impact. How do we know how destructive its wave would be at a distance away from the original detonation? My point was perhaps that they were more concerned about the explosive force of the warp core breach than the Genesis wave.

 

[RyanKCR]

Well, they were running from the explosion of the Omega 13... I mean Genesis.
But since the Genesis device wasn't the only thing that could explode on the Reliant, they were also running from everything else that would be ignited - mainly her anti-matter tanks.

But that's my point. Do we know what aspect they feared would lead to their destruction? We know that the Genesis torpedo is meant to be fired at a planet and detonate and do its magic on impact. How do we know how destructive its wave would be at a distance away from the original detonation? My point was perhaps that they were more concerned about the explosive force of the warp core breach than the Genesis wave.

Then why did Kirk look to David after the time and distance reports? And why did David shake his head in response?

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Well, they were running from the explosion of the Omega 13... I mean Genesis.
But since the Genesis device wasn't the only thing that could explode on the Reliant, they were also running from everything else that would be ignited - mainly her anti-matter tanks.

But that's my point. Do we know what aspect they feared would lead to their destruction? We know that the Genesis torpedo is meant to be fired at a planet and detonate and do its magic on impact. How do we know how destructive its wave would be at a distance away from the original detonation? My point was perhaps that they were more concerned about the explosive force of the warp core breach than the Genesis wave.

Then why did Kirk look to David after the time and distance reports? And why did David shake his head in response?

And why wouldn't they have mentioned the warp core breach if that was what they were running from?

 

[CoveTom]

And why wouldn't they have mentioned the warp core breach if that was what they were running from?

Well, aside from the fact that the term "warp core breach" hadn't even been invented yet, why should they mention it? They certainly didn't mention the fact that it was the Genesis wave they were running from either. I assume they didn't mention it because, in either case, everyone understood what they were running from.

 

[RyanKCR]

We know it was Genesis they were running from due to these two conversations:

McCoy: Dear Lord. You think we're intelligent enough to... suppose... what if this thing were used where life already exists?
Spock: It would destroy such life in favor of its new matrix.
McCoy: Its "new matrix"? Do you have any idea what you're saying?
Spock: I was not attempting to evaluate its moral implications, Doctor. As a matter of cosmic history, it has always been easier to destroy than to create.

DAVID: It's the Genesis Wave!
KIRK: What?
DAVID: They're on a build up to detonation!
KIRK: How soon.
DAVID: We encoded four minutes.
KIRK: We'll beam aboard and stop it.
DAVID: You can't!
KIRK: Scotty, I need warp speed in three minutes or we're all dead!