7X05 The Angels Take Manhattan (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!)

[Professor Zoom]

Actually, that rock is quite clearly the one in Central Park. In fact, all of the stuff in the park is quite clearly Central Park. The fountain, the area where Rory is taken, the bridge, all of it. It's Central Park.

And could have been shot in Cardiff with the background CGI'd in (like they did in plenty of other shots in the episode.) They only reason they went is Moffat's obsession with appealing to the tiny American audience.

No. Not the fountain. Not the bridge. It's not just the backgrounds, those are REAL places that people in New York go to. I'VE been to them. I've walked where Rory was taken. That fountain, it's already famous because of the play Angels in America.

 

[Count Zero]

It just occurred to me that a much more effective way for the Statue of Liberty to feed itself would be all those people that climb up to the platform on its inside. Surely, they touch the statue during that. Some of them going missing will be noticed less than the statue moving (through water no less).

 

[Samurai8472]

Actually, that rock is quite clearly the one in Central Park. In fact, all of the stuff in the park is quite clearly Central Park. The fountain, the area where Rory is taken, the bridge, all of it. It's Central Park.

And could have been shot in Cardiff with the background CGI'd in (like they did in plenty of other shots in the episode.) They only reason they went is Moffat's obsession with appealing to the tiny American audience.

Clearly not

[YT]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G73w7VHP0l8[/YT]

As to appealing to the "tiny American audience", Who has had a HUGE pop-culture impact, Who references are in the media a lot these days. Why not build on that?

Because he's not paid to boost BBC America's ratings. He's paid to make a show for British License Fee payers.

Since when did people start getting possessive of "Doctor Who" being only for the British?

Are you saying expansion of the show's audience to an emerging market is bad?

I just met about 7 or 8 Doctor Who fans at my local community college here in Iowa. When we have free time we watch the latest episodes.

A "Doctor Who" club was just approved by some students.

 

[Professor Zoom]

As to appealing to the "tiny American audience", Who has had a HUGE pop-culture impact, Who references are in the media a lot these days. Why not build on that?

Because he's not paid to boost BBC America's ratings. He's paid to make a show for British Licence Fee payers.

Surely those who actually sign his check decide what he's paid to do and not do.

 

[Cutter John]

Hopefully the Doctor is only able to give regen energy to River, since the only reason he's alive is because she energized him with hers.

She could have at least thanked him for it though. I don't blame him for being agrivated.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

What I don't get is why did River write the book that way? Is she compelled to disclose the full and complete facts?

Well, she is if the facts have compelled others to act on them.

So there's a building in New York full of Weeping Angels but if you make a paradox (if that's what it even as) in it it magically resolves everything except one in a graveyard.

Actually, it resolved everything. The gravestone is just separate from the stuff in that house (I don't even know how someone would get buried if they die in that house, since they seem to get trapped there).

About filming in America. I think it's cool when it works for the story (and I thought it worked here, both the detective thing and because, cheesey or not, a giant Angel Statue of Liberty is fucking awesome). Part of the appeal of Doctor Who is its British-ness and that's not going to change, but having Americans watch the show is good for everyone.

 

[Samson88B]

Angels back to blink standard here. Great episode, statue of liberty cracked/creeped me out in equal measures.

I would have to second that. When the Angels were brought back in the crack season, it was severely lacking. there was one exception ... when Amy had to act as if she could see but she was really blind. That moment when the angel had moved slowly to follow her was creepy and spin chilling. The rest of the the episodes.... Blah....

This episode had the feel and thrill of Blink back. It was cool to see the Statue of Liberty as a Angel but at the same time I thought it was kind of silly. Other than that.... The angels were back in full form.

A very nice send off for the Ponds, sad to see them go but kind of knew that it would be a happy ever after for Amy and Rory. At least from their standpoint.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Yeah, the Angels around her when she had to act like she could see was good (especially when I found out they essentially used stop-motion to film it so the Angels only moved when the camera wasn't filming). But having the Angels kill people defeats half their point. I thought the Angels were used extremely effectively and the idea of an Angel farm was actually quite clever.

 

[Similitude]

Great episode. Really enjoyed it. Teared up at the end for sure.

 

[The Grim Ghost]

Actually, that rock is quite clearly the one in Central Park. In fact, all of the stuff in the park is quite clearly Central Park. The fountain, the area where Rory is taken, the bridge, all of it. It's Central Park.

And could have been shot in Cardiff with the background CGI'd in (like they did in plenty of other shots in the episode.) They only reason they went is Moffat's obsession with appealing to the tiny American audience.

Setting the occasional story in the states is an obsession with appealing to Americans? Judging by the success of many American television shows shown in the UK, the Brits seem to enjoy stories set in America as well, so I just don't think you're making a lot of sense here.

Also if they have the budget to film on location occasionally, why not do it? It's always going to look better and feel more authentic than cgi. I am really puzzled at why this bothers you.

 

[Samson88B]

The baby angels were awesome, much creepier than the adult ones.

I think the season opener was the strongest this season, but I like that they tried something different showing how getting caught up with the Doctor screws your life up.

I kind of thought the baby angels... if they were indeed baby angels.. were not as strong as a healthy mature angel and were only capable of bringing someone back in time only short distances or just moving them in space...which is what happened with Rory. The baby angels were definitely a very neat concept.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

What I don't get is why did River write the book that way? Is she compelled to disclose the full and complete facts?

Well, she is if the facts have compelled others to act on them.

What do you mean, like some predestination thing? She has to write it since she knows they read it at some point? Feels weak to me.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Yeah, it's a predestination thing. You have to think of all the elements. They read it, which means someone had to write it. She had to write it because it happened and they need to recreate it. If she chose not to write it, the future wouldn't happen.

 

[Professor Zoom]

Yeah, it's a predestination thing. You have to think of all the elements. They read it, which means someone had to write it. She had to write it because it happened and they need to recreate it. If she chose not to write it, the future wouldn't happen.

Wouldn't that be a GOOD thing?

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

So who loved River's dress?

I loved River's dress

 

[Chris3123]

Did I miss an important step in the evolution of the Angels? Weren't they always made out of stone? Because the Statue of Liberty is made out of bronze...

The angels just sprayed the innards with pink slime and played some Jackie Wilson music, which allowed them to control Lady Liberty's movements with an NES Advantage controller.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Yeah, it's a predestination thing. You have to think of all the elements. They read it, which means someone had to write it. She had to write it because it happened and they need to recreate it. If she chose not to write it, the future wouldn't happen.

Wouldn't that be a GOOD thing?

Except the part where they destroy the universe because of the paradox, I guess it isn't too bad.

 

[Professor Zoom]

Yeah, it's a predestination thing. You have to think of all the elements. They read it, which means someone had to write it. She had to write it because it happened and they need to recreate it. If she chose not to write it, the future wouldn't happen.

Wouldn't that be a GOOD thing?

Except the part where they destroy the universe because of the paradox, I guess it isn't too bad.

Who decides which paradoxes destroy the universe and which don't? They used a paradox to stop the angels, but a paradox to avoid the situation all together would rip the universe in two?

I know one shouldn't look at time travel stories TOO closely, but still...

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Granted, Doctor Who time travel rules are never consistent, but the one rule that always occurs is that it's bad to alter your own timeline. Here, they explicitly said that what Amy and Rory did could easily have destroyed New York city and that doing it a second time definitely would have. They "got lucky" that things worked out the first time. That's why you don't want to risk a second time (especially a bigger paradox).

 

[Guy Gardener]

Are we sure that Amy and Rory weren't locked in that Hotel?

One could argue that only one Angel survived and didn't have enough "angelpower" to angel their battery farm. but if they were all wounded instead of exterminated, then they could have gotten back to business soon enough.