Chris Pine: To Shat or Nat? That is the question.

[R. Star]

Wait was that Pine?!

Okay Paramount... when you audition news Trek actors, make sure they've never performed in drag in the past! This is becoming a pattern now!

Yes it was: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Kol7dFZHAk

Enjoy.

And what pattern would you be talking about?

Scott Bakula(Archer)

http://ts4.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=4944272565864047&id=d96cadd2c1581f3a423c5ca1f49bc2bd

[Images posted inline should be hosted on your own image-sharing account. Converting this to a link. - M']

 

[JudgeDredd]

The one point in the movie where I thought he was channeling the spirit of Shatner, he managed to do it without it being cheesy. It's the point at the end of the movie where he steps onto the bridge, takes a look around, and exclaims "Bones!"

I got goosebumps at that moment.

I liked that moment too, but there were other moments that really felt more like Shatner for me.

The biggest moment was when Pine's Kirk is in the captain's chair during the Kobayashi Maru, and he orders medical to prepare to receive wounded. His inflection and delivery there is very Shatner-esque. I also found the scenes with Bones when Kirk is "sick" also had some great Shatner moments.

I think if anything, Pine should take that sense of wonder, enthusiasm, and positive energy Shatner infused the role with. The Kirk of the first film didn't have those qualities yet, as he still doubted himself and was still haunted by his father's death. But in the new film, I hope we'll see a Kirk who, by no means as seasoned as the Prime Kirk, is filled with passion and enthusiasm for being "out there" and who exudes the confident energy of command that Shatner breathed into Prime Kirk.

 

[Spock/Uhura Fan]

Wait was that Pine?!

Okay Paramount... when you audition news Trek actors, make sure they've never performed in drag in the past! This is becoming a pattern now!

Yes it was: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Kol7dFZHAk

Enjoy.

And what pattern would you be talking about?

Scott Bakula(Archer)

http://ts4.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=4944272565864047&id=d96cadd2c1581f3a423c5ca1f49bc2bd

[Inline image converted to link. - M']

Oh boy.

 

[The Doctor]

Pine did quite the Shatnerian swagger at the end of the first film, and the way he sat in the Captain's chair with his legs crossed was very reminiscent of the Shat. All-in-all, Pine did a fine job of invoking the feel of Kirk without crossing into imitation.

Urban, on the other hand, is clearly doing an homage to DeForest Kelley's McCoy, right on down to the eyebrow arch. That's fine with me, because the imitation is really good and I have a seriously soft spot in my heart for De Kelley's portrayal. He's still my favorite part of TOS.

 

[R. Star]

Well seems we all have varying reasons why, but the general consensus is not Shat.

 

[Sindatur]

Yes it was: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Kol7dFZHAk

Enjoy.

And what pattern would you be talking about?

Scott Bakula(Archer)

http://ts4.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=4944272565864047&id=d96cadd2c1581f3a423c5ca1f49bc2bd

[Inline image converted to link. - M']

Oh boy.

Isn't there also Janeway (Or Kate Mulgrew) cross dressed as a man, or was that a Photo manip? I'm pretty sure I've seen her dressed as a man?

 

[M'Sharak]

Oh boy.

Isn't there also Janeway (Or Kate Mulgrew) cross dressed as a man, or was that a Photo manip? I'm pretty sure I've seen her dressed as a man?

You're thinking of her Marlene Dietrich-style white suit from the WWII France holodeck simulation of "The Killing Game," perhaps?

Scott Bakula(Archer)

http://ts4.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=4944272565864047&id=d96cadd2c1581f3a423c5ca1f49bc2bd

[Inline image converted to link. - M']

R. Star, please don't hotlink images from web space which is not yours. Register an image-sharing account and host the image there instead.

 

[Spock/Uhura Fan]

[...]

Urban, on the other hand, is clearly doing an homage to DeForest Kelley's McCoy, right on down to the eyebrow arch. That's fine with me, because the imitation is really good and I have a seriously soft spot in my heart for De Kelley's portrayal. He's still my favorite part of TOS.

Yes, I saw it that way too, and I think that's what the actor said he was doing as a fan of the series. That level of impersonation could have easily not worked, but he did a fine job, right down to the constant, but cute, grumpiness.

I'm sorry, it just makes me think of this:

He's such a grumpy bear, but he really is sweet on the inside. You can just tell.

 

[Sindatur]

Oh boy.

Isn't there also Janeway (Or Kate Mulgrew) cross dressed as a man, or was that a Photo manip? I'm pretty sure I've seen her dressed as a man?

You're thinking of her Marlene Dietrich-style white suit from the WWII France holodeck simulation of "The Killing Game," perhaps?

I thought of that, but, for some reason I seem to remember something even more masculine, but, that could just be misremembering this outfit

Still, close enough to count, if we want to make a trend out of it. Quick, someone find some cross dressing goods on Stewart, Shatner, and Brooks, so we can have a full set

 

[Drago-Kazov]

Pine emulated Cruise from Top Gun. I wonder wgo he will emulate next.

 

[Bob Karo]

The more I think about it, the more I say no. It's more a character as written than acted problem.

I guess what I want is a Kirk who's more a walking stack of text books than a punk.

 

[M'Sharak]

The more I think about it, the more I say no. It's more a character as written than acted problem.

I guess what I want is a Kirk who's more a walking stack of text books than a punk.

But do we actually ever see that guy - Academy instructor Lt. James T. "stack of books with legs" Kirk? No, we don't. He never appears on screen—not once—and the single time he gets a mention by a former pupil, even Shatner's Kirk seems a bit dubious:

MITCHELL: Well, I'm getting a chance to read some of that longhair stuff you like. Hey man, I remember you back at the academy. A stack of books with legs. The first thing I ever heard from upperclassmen was, Watch out for Lieutenant Kirk. In his class, you either think or sink.
KIRK: I wasn't that bad, was I?

What was it about that one line of dialogue? What gave it such a grip on fans that we're still—forty-six years later—expecting to see that "stack of books" guy from any perspective other than that particular to Cadet Mitchell's seat in an Academy classroom?

 

[F. King Daniel]

I see "stack of books with legs" Lt. Kirk as an artifact from the pilot. After all, his supposed BFF Gary Mitchell never gets a mention again. Spock wears yellow and has a vaguely-defined human ancestor, no McCoy or Uhura, Sulu wears blue.... the characters weren't defined yet, the costumes and sets were prototypical etc
(oh yeah, and books are obsolete! Everyone bar Kirk's lawyer uses PADDs)

I say this new James Kirk is working back from the Kirk seen in the series proper.

 

[UFO]

I see "stack of books with legs" Lt. Kirk as an artifact from the pilot.

Ah, you mean the same way you see a smiling Spock?

I say this new James Kirk is working back from the Kirk seen in the series proper.

According to popular cliche it could have happened that way, but ST09 seems to go to extremes to give the impression its the absence of Kirk's father combined with the tyrannical uncle/stepfather and apparently a disinterested mother this time round, that drives him off the rails. So I guess we can believe what we want to.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I see "stack of books with legs" Lt. Kirk as an artifact from the pilot.

Ah, you mean the same way you see a smiling Spock?

You got me there! I... umm.... I'll get back to you n that one...

I say this new James Kirk is working back from the Kirk seen in the series proper.

According to popular cliche it could have happened that way, but ST09 seems to go to extremes to give the impression its the absence of Kirk's father combined with the tyrannical uncle/stepfather and apparently a disinterested mother this time round, that drives him off the rails. So I guess we can believe what we want to.

Very true. Kirk's life is the one explicity shown to be different from that of his prime counterpart.

 

[UFO]

Ah, you mean the same way you see a smiling Spock?

You got me there! I... umm.... I'll get back to you n that one...

Well to be fair you have already suggested that has greater validity by virtue of being included in the "series proper". Which is a reasonable point, though I don't believe it is conclusive.

On the other hand, while, as M'Sharak points out, "Kirk as a stack of books on legs" is not, as far a I know, supported by anything we actually see, neither I believe is it contradicted. Not even by a movie that was billed as a prequel!

 

[M'Sharak]

Ah, you mean the same way you see a smiling Spock?

You got me there! I... umm.... I'll get back to you n that one...

Well to be fair you have already suggested that has greater validity by virtue of being included in the "series proper". Which is a reasonable point, though I don't believe it is conclusive.

On the other hand, while, as M'Sharak points out, "Kirk as a stack of books on legs" is not, as far a I know, supported by anything we actually see, neither I believe is it contradicted.

But why is it so important that Kirk be that "stack of books with legs," when it had not been so throughout Shatner's non-WNMHGB career (78 live-action episodes, 22 animated episodes, 7 feature films) portraying Kirk?

That was the question: why has it become important that Kirk be measured against that particular yardstick now, when it never had been before? Why has it become necessary that we see this "stack of books with legs" in any situation other than the one situation (even allowing Mitchell room for a bit of a fond exaggeration in reminiscence) in which it was supposed to have been true?

If there was a reasonable expectation that one of the remaining films would be showing us Lieutenant Kirk, hard-nosed instructor of a "think or sink" course at Starfleet Academy, then yes, I might be looking for that as a prominent aspect of the characterization. But what's the likelihood of our seeing that on the big screen, really, besides practically nil?

 

[Lord Garth FOI]

The one point in the movie where I thought he was channeling the spirit of Shatner, he managed to do it without it being cheesy. It's the point at the end of the movie where he steps onto the bridge, takes a look around, and exclaims "Bones!"

I got goosebumps at that moment.

This

 

[Nerys Myk]

IIRC, there are lines than indicate Kirk had a "wild streak" when he was younger. Dr. Marcus's "Listen, kiddo, Jim Kirk was many things, but he was never a Boy Scout!" comes to mind,

 

[UFO]

But why is it so important that Kirk be that "stack of books with legs," when it had not been so throughout Shatner's non-WNMHGB career (78 live-action episodes, 22 animated episodes, 7 feature films) portraying Kirk?

That was the question: why has it become important that Kirk be measured against that particular yardstick now, when it never had been before? Why has it become necessary that we see this "stack of books with legs" in any situation other than the one situation (even allowing Mitchell room for a bit of a fond exaggeration in reminiscence) in which it was supposed to have been true?

I am not sure what you mean by "… when it had not been so throughout Shatner's non-WNMHGB career …". It is after all part of this history, not his present and apparently there was never a story that required we actually see that part of his past. In the prime universe it is clear that he mellowed quite a bit but I think we can see the intelligent part of that Kirk in much of his post WNMHGB career. Similarly we are told nuKirk is also very bright though its hard to see how a rebel type would want to take the tests necessary to indicate that. They tend to be anti social! In WNMHGB we are told that reasoned solutions are important to Kirk and what he expects of others. For me, Spock’s character also affirms that theme. We don’t know that about nuKirk because that’s not part of his history.

Quite apart from the "stack of books with legs" being a fairly powerful image, I think it sums up the "non-action" hero part of Kirk. Or the thinking man’s hero part, if you will. There are certainly times when he gets out of a jam by using his brains. Whatever a lot of people now may want to believe, ST was never just an action adventure show with a big "dumb" leader, it blends action and intelligence.

If there was a reasonable expectation that one of the remaining films would be showing us Lieutenant Kirk, hard-nosed instructor of a "think or sink" course at Starfleet Academy, then yes, I might be looking for that as a prominent aspect of the characterization. But what's the likelihood of our seeing that on the big screen, really, besides practically nil?

Once again I don’t follow why it should be a requirement that it be explicitly shown in either universe really. It just forms part of Kirk’s back-story which gives us a handle on part of what formed him. I.e. he is a little bit different to the straight (no pun intended) muscle-bound plup action hero type.

I don’t think it is so much about Kirk being a hard ass, as a proponent of thinking. As I say, that is part of Prime Kirk.