What if a BSG-styled remake of Babylon 5 was made?

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ It highly decreases the likelihood of aliens, let's put it that way.

But if they do B5 like that, it kind of kills the show, since obviously you can't have 'First One'-like characters if there are no aliens. Races like the Centauri, Narn, etc. didn't have a lot of spectacular abilities, but you can't take Vorlons or Shadows and make them into human variants. Races like that are just too powerful and would require way too much rewriting.

 

[Silvercrest]

Right, that's what I said earlier.

I wasn't trying to debate whether there should be aliens in BSG. I was only addressing the really sketchy connection Mars was making between franchises. He seems to automatically assume that there would be no aliens in a BSG-style B5. (Or energy weapons, either.)

I'm uncertain if Mars is treating that as a major precept of "BSG-style", or if he thinks that's just how RDM works in every case. His phrasing suggests the latter.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

^ It highly decreases the likelihood of aliens, let's put it that way.

No it really doesn't since the no aliens thing was probably part of the whole barren galaxy with not very many habitable planets to stop at thing they had going on there.

 

[Anwar]

...Barren to humans doesn't mean barren to aliens. That's why they'd be aliens, they wouldn't be like humans!

 

[sojourner]

snip...

Great post. It really illustrates the true problem here: the writers had no idea how BIG the galaxy really is. The pic you included shows an area outlined of several thousand light years and would have contained on the order of 600 million stars (give or take 100 million). While the line from the show of "70 light years" would have been a small dot containing maybe 200 to 500 stars.

If the correct number for the "known galaxy" in the show is 70 light years, the number of races evident in that small an area would mean the rest of the galaxy must be a freakin zoo.

 

[Fist McStrongpunch]

I posted this in another recent B5 remake thread:

First off, things should be condensed and streamlined. I enjoyed B5's 1 season = 1 year approach for that particular show, but let's be honest: did it really feel like an entire year had gone by each season? certainly not to me. So scrap it. Things take as long as they need to take, more like on BSG (season 1 covered like 6 weeks, they had time skips if need be, or several episodes can cover a single day).

Next, the story and characters we eventually got are iconic. I know there are people who would love to see the show as originally intended (including me, but not for an actual reboot, more like if I traveled to an alternate universe one of the first things I'd do is buy the dvds of the original 5-year arc), but to me it just wouldn't be B5 without Sheridan, Ivanova, and others. So I would do something similar to the actual show, but with nods to the original storyline, and streamlined to make things less awkward, such as:

This first arc covers several episodes - Ambassadors arrive on Babylon 5. Midseason or so, Kosh is attacked, and Commander Sinclair is framed for it. The Agamemnon, led by Sheridan and Ivanova (who had previously shown up in the first episode at the very least), is dispatched to investigate. They and Garibaldi uncover a conspiracy within the EA government, including first officer Takashima. They can’t go public with their findings yet, so Sinclair has to go into hiding, first rooming with Garibaldi, then being granted asylum on Minbar, where he begins his Ranger training alongside Marcus. Takashima is reassigned by her unknown masters and becomes a recurring adversary (perhaps involved with the Night Watch?). Sheridan and Ivanova transfer to B5 to fill the power vacuum (perhaps there’s a battle in which the Agamemnon is destroyed?).

Alternately, Ivanova could be B5’s second officer and only Sheridan transfers, leaving the Agamemnon in the command of his XO, Elizabeth Lochley.

Sinclair continues to be a major character on the show even after he leaves the station. He slowly learns about the hole in his mind, and about the coming war against the Shadows. He, Sheridan, Delenn, and Kosh have their secret Army of Light conspiracy going from relatively early on.

Lyta Alexander has a second personality, “Talia,” programmed into her by the Psi Corps. However it ends up going, she takes the super-telepath storyline of the original series, while Ivanova takes the political telepath rebellion storyline (though hopefully without Byron).

 

[Sindatur]

Right, that's what I said earlier.

I wasn't trying to debate whether there should be aliens in BSG. I was only addressing the really sketchy connection Mars was making between franchises. He seems to automatically assume that there would be no aliens in a BSG-style B5. (Or energy weapons, either.)

I'm uncertain if Mars is treating that as a major precept of "BSG-style", or if he thinks that's just how RDM works in every case. His phrasing suggests the latter.

Since No Aliens was a rule in the NuBSG Universe, it's natural when someone says "In the BSG Style", to presume that one aspect of that means without Aliens. If that wasn't intention, that's fine, but, it should be stated, that "No Aliens" aspect, wasn't supposed to be considered, and exactly what "NuBSG Style" does mean, otherwise, other aspects of the show, may be wrongly assumed to be intended, IMHO, of course

 

[Mars]

That has nothing to do with B5. You sound as though RDM will not feature aliens in any of his works.

psssst...check the thread title, "BSG-Style remake of Babylon 5"

The premise of BSG does not automatically preclude the existence of aliens. After all, there were aliens in the original, and nothing in nuBSG eliminated the possibility that there were still aliens out there somewhere. They just didn't fit into the story that RDM wanted to tell.

And the premise of B5 does lend itself more toward aliens. Yes, you could tell a similar story with human colonies if you wanted-- but if the premise allows either one, then it's simplistic to say, "BSG-style = no aliens ever!!!"

And if you did, it wouldn't really be an accurate version of B5. That show required beings like the Shadows and the First Ones, beings from before humanity. The premise of those races requires them to be aliens. How would you change them to fit? How would you tell the story without them?

By the way, there's nothing in either premise that requires machine guns and precludes energy weapons, either.

The machine guns and modern as opposed to future technology is another aspect of the BSG style, that means you only have the tech that you need to have in order for it to be a space opera, everything else is just contemporary modern technology, cell phones, laptop computers, GUI interfaces and keyboards. The doctors use scalpels and CAT scans to examine their patients, the kitchens use microwave ovens etc, civilians wear contemporary modern clothes, those in a military service wear uniforms similar to those of a modern armed forces. You need spaceships, jumpgates, hyperdrives but that is all. The ships are equipped with slug throwers and missiles, some of the larger capital ships have nuclear tipped missiles.

 

[Takeru]

^ It highly decreases the likelihood of aliens, let's put it that way.

But if they do B5 like that, it kind of kills the show, since obviously you can't have 'First One'-like characters if there are no aliens. Races like the Centauri, Narn, etc. didn't have a lot of spectacular abilities, but you can't take Vorlons or Shadows and make them into human variants. Races like that are just too powerful and would require way too much rewriting.

It would require some rewriting but I think it would be possible. The "first ones" wouldn't really be first ones and there would be no energy beings, just push Babylon 5 further into the future and it becomes possible. in the 23rd century humanity has settled various planets in the galaxy, everything is ruled from earth.
Several colonies (the ones that will become Shadows, Vorlons and other first ones) are fed up with earth and want independence, war breaks out, earth and loyal colonies like minbar, narn and centauri are bombed back into the stone age with 90 to 95% of the population dead, at the end of the war the remains of the earth fleet detonate a superweapon making interstellar travel in the entire old earth empire impossible (think Omega particles from Star Trek for example). All ships are stranded wherever they are, the worlds are completely isolated from each other, even the Shadows etc., who did not lose their technology, populations and most of their infrastructure have to find new ways of FTL travel.

2500 years later the "younger races" have reached the levels of the original B5 technologically and culturally, while the "first ones" used the time to develop super advanced technology and visited and influenced their relatives (genetically engineering telepaths for example).

Done, you can now tell Babylon 5's story without a single alien in sight, all of this has happened before and the old earth empire is marching towards a new war. Pieces of old empire technology replace stuff like the great machine if necessary.

 

[Agent Richard07]

Everyone making nuBSG categorically stated that in their universe, there were no aliens. RDM said it, EJO said it (and threatened to walk off the job if aliens were ever introduced), so I'd count that as canon.

I've never heard anyone say that aliens don't exist, period. As far as I know, it was only implied that they wouldn't be included due to the show's nature as well as Olmos' feelings on the matter. It's entirely possible for the viewer to speculate that they might exist, just that we don't and won't see them. We don't see aliens or ninjas on Seinfeld. That doesn't mean that they don't exist, it just means that we don't see them because they're not part of what the show is trying to do.

Since No Aliens was a rule in the NuBSG Universe, it's natural when someone says "In the BSG Style", to presume that one aspect of that means without Aliens. If that wasn't intention, that's fine, but, it should be stated, that "No Aliens" aspect, wasn't supposed to be considered, and exactly what "NuBSG Style" does mean, otherwise, other aspects of the show, may be wrongly assumed to be intended, IMHO, of course

To me, "BSG-style" simply means naturalistic (and maybe a bit over-the-top) drama with realistic effects and production values. In other words, Sci fi that looks like it can happen in the real world. It's not as specific as "no aliens". Stargate Universe, The Walking Dead and I believe Falling Skies use that style and they have aliens, with monsters in The Walking Dead's case. I think BSG-style can include anything, so long as the naturalism I mentioned remains at the core. We're just talking TV shows. Lots of movies have already done this, like the Alien and Terminator franchises as well as one-offs like Solaris, The Abyss, Sphere, etc. I see all those as BSG-style.

 

[Mars]

Everyone making nuBSG categorically stated that in their universe, there were no aliens. RDM said it, EJO said it (and threatened to walk off the job if aliens were ever introduced), so I'd count that as canon.

I've never heard anyone say that aliens don't exist, period. As far as I know, it was only implied that they wouldn't be included due to the show's nature as well as Olmos' feelings on the matter. It's entirely possible for the viewer to speculate that they might exist, just that we don't and won't see them. We don't see aliens or ninjas on Seinfeld. That doesn't mean that they don't exist, it just means that we don't see them because they're not part of what the show is trying to do.

Since No Aliens was a rule in the NuBSG Universe, it's natural when someone says "In the BSG Style", to presume that one aspect of that means without Aliens. If that wasn't intention, that's fine, but, it should be stated, that "No Aliens" aspect, wasn't supposed to be considered, and exactly what "NuBSG Style" does mean, otherwise, other aspects of the show, may be wrongly assumed to be intended, IMHO, of course

To me, "BSG-style" simply means naturalistic (and maybe a bit over-the-top) drama with realistic effects and production values. In other words, Sci fi that looks like it can happen in the real world. It's not as specific as "no aliens". Stargate Universe, The Walking Dead and I believe Falling Skies use that style and they have aliens, with monsters in The Walking Dead's case. I think BSG-style can include anything, so long as the naturalism I mentioned remains at the core. We're just talking TV shows. Lots of movies have already done this, like the Alien and Terminator franchises as well as one-offs like Solaris, The Abyss, Sphere, etc. I see all those as BSG-style.

You really can't do realistic aliens with actors in makeup, so you'd have continuous CGI, of have to shove them offstage most of the time for budgetary reasons. One can argue whether Alien was realistic, an alien that requires humans to reproduce? How could such a creature evolve if it required aliens from another planet as incubators for its eggs?

 

[sojourner]

You really can't do realistic aliens with actors in makeup, so you'd have continuous CGI, of have to shove them offstage most of the time for budgetary reasons. One can argue whether Alien was realistic, an alien that requires humans to reproduce? How could such a creature evolve if it required aliens from another planet as incubators for its eggs?

Uh, gee, that's a tough one. Oh wait! It used... get this... the other life on it's home planet as incubators! Wow, that was tough.

 

[Mars]

You really can't do realistic aliens with actors in makeup, so you'd have continuous CGI, of have to shove them offstage most of the time for budgetary reasons. One can argue whether Alien was realistic, an alien that requires humans to reproduce? How could such a creature evolve if it required aliens from another planet as incubators for its eggs?

Uh, gee, that's a tough one. Oh wait! It used... get this... the other life on it's home planet as incubators! Wow, that was tough.

We are carbon based life forms, the Alien is a carbon based life form, but the thing about carbon based life forms is that they are based on carbon molecules, and the thing about carbon atoms is there are many ways to connect them. Life on Earth evolved one way with a certain arrangements of carbon atoms connected together in a certain way, on another planet they could have been connected differently, the very nutrients we ingest and digest have evolved over billions of years on Earth. Billions of years on another planet would have evolved different nutrients and different life form had evolved to process. I don't think the carbon-based molecules in the human body would be compatible with an alien that evolved on another planet. An alien couldn't eat us without getting indigestion, it couldn't implant eggs in us and expect the eggs to survive. Space Vampires make little sense as well.

 

[Silvercrest]

Perhaps the Aliens were a bioweapon designed to prey on Terran life.

Anyway, that sort of compatibility is a conceit of the genre and requires-- say it with me-- "willing suspension of disbelief". Throw that out and you throw out a lot of popular s.f., including Spock, Barsoom, "To Serve Man", and "Mars Needs Women." Come to think of it, you're also throwing out nuBSG, considering where the colonists ended up.

 

[Mars]

There are a lot of movies where aliens come from light years away just to feast on humans, that is simply a repackaging of a horror movie with science fiction trappings. A good science fiction movie would give the aliens some motivation besides trying to eat something that is probably poisonous to them. Meat is made of hydrocarbons and so is gasoline, I don't think drinking gasoline would be good for you.

 

[Autistoid]

Right, that's what I said earlier.

I wasn't trying to debate whether there should be aliens in BSG. I was only addressing the really sketchy connection Mars was making between franchises. He seems to automatically assume that there would be no aliens in a BSG-style B5. (Or energy weapons, either.)

I'm uncertain if Mars is treating that as a major precept of "BSG-style", or if he thinks that's just how RDM works in every case. His phrasing suggests the latter.

Since No Aliens was a rule in the NuBSG Universe, it's natural when someone says "In the BSG Style", to presume that one aspect of that means without Aliens. If that wasn't intention, that's fine, but, it should be stated, that "No Aliens" aspect, wasn't supposed to be considered, and exactly what "NuBSG Style" does mean, otherwise, other aspects of the show, may be wrongly assumed to be intended, IMHO, of course

It's natural to be stupid.



Seriously though this thread was a loss of serious potential and I feel many here just didn't get BSG, which is incredibly hypocritical.

As one of the rare folk who suffered through the first season of B5 in the modern era to critize BSG is incredibbly unfair.

B5 was like eating amazing healthy dirt, and BSG was like eating deep fried smarties, it was amazing at first and quickly declined.


If one was to reimagine B5 I think it'd work something along the lines of this.

Have much more natural character development, alot of early B5 felt like people reading dialogue out of a book.

Wooden unnatural something that wouldn't get a response to a non fan.

Avoid the excessively 2 dimensional bag guys, the way the psi corp were made to be these boogey men etc was just tacky.

Going back to the original theme, strip away all the cliches of space opera on TV and create a fresh style for the show.

 

[Autistoid]

To me, "BSG-style" simply means naturalistic (and maybe a bit over-the-top) drama with realistic effects and production values. In other words, Sci fi that looks like it can happen in the real world. It's not as specific as "no aliens". Stargate Universe, The Walking Dead and I believe Falling Skies use that style and they have aliens, with monsters in The Walking Dead's case. I think BSG-style can include anything, so long as the naturalism I mentioned remains at the core. We're just talking TV shows. Lots of movies have already done this, like the Alien and Terminator franchises as well as one-offs like Solaris, The Abyss, Sphere, etc. I see all those as BSG-style.

Exactly.

Too many people forget that BSG was in so many ways a direct response to Voyager.

Same overall plot, however in contrast characters dwelled excessively on the past. In contrast to characters who couldn't care an emotion through one episode without a reset.

Voyager was excessive with technology, BSG inverted that.

Voyager was excessive with camp and odd social behaviors BSG was intensely gritty.

 

[Autistoid]

There are a lot of movies where aliens come from light years away just to feast on humans, that is simply a repackaging of a horror movie with science fiction trappings. A good science fiction movie would give the aliens some motivation besides trying to eat something that is probably poisonous to them. Meat is made of hydrocarbons and so is gasoline, I don't think drinking gasoline would be good for you.

That's a matter of perspective.

Would you say ants in your home travelled thousands of miles from africa to be a pest to you personally.

No they migrate gradually you just happen to be at the edge.

Also why would any other specious view us as anything other than a pest.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

Zombie thread alert!

 

[Autistoid]

My reimaging of B5 would be like this.

There is no FTL, meaning B5 isn't only politically important it's the only major population center for .1 light years.

No time travel.

All prophecies are based on predictions of super computers, based in other solar systems therefore while highly advanced are incredibly vague due to time lag.

Due to a lack of FTL the time scale is much longer. The first ones and the shadows have been traveling the galaxy at sublight speeds for millions of years.

With all other alien races having been space faring for atleast 40,000 years.

There are no energy beings, however the biology of earlier species operate well outside our understands of biology.

There are only a small number of alien species. They are not rubber forehead aliens, and are much closer to starfish aliens.

With a more direct reference to the mimbari being aqualitic squid like creatures. With the cast system and dalen being far more similiar to avatars. The warrior cast are essentially genetically engineered super soldiers who are desinged to fight on earth. The worker class your traditional squid like creature, and the religions actually being avatars for the political class.

This would also put a huge amount of weight between humans being born with mimbari souls type idea.

The gnarn being directly lizard like, however very similiar to how they are depicted in the series. With a highly paranoid, anti social characterization.

The centauri, having birdlike features, including greater height, lean skeletal structures and inability to suffer earth gravity. With a language and communication style that is similiar to bird talk.

The point is getting far away from humanoid aliens unless there is directly a purpose.

Another added perk would be that concious transmission can occur over several light years.

So avatars functions as a necessity to galactic diplomacy.

Important themes, the hugely different cultures present on B5 would have dramatically different perseptions.

What are overly dramatic prohecies to the us humans would just be the weekly news to the Mimbari.

The chosen one from our perspective would be simply the whistleblower to theirs.

Space is a ecosystem and we are nothing but ants in little ant colonies.

B5 would have no direct influence on other ant colonies around the galaxy however would represent a cross continmation of species.