7X01 Asylum Of The Daleks (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!)

[Gov Kodos]

If only we hadn't fought Hitler the German army probably would have just given up, turned their guns into ploughshares and planted pretty pretty flowers everywhere...

FFS...

Maybe the Doctor should have just let the Daleks remove the Earth's core and turn our planet into a giant war machine they could use to take over the universe eh? I'm sure they were just crazy, misguided kids mucking about, and they'd have probably given up and all got nice apprenticeships if we'd just given them a chance...
And note that was just the second time he ever met them, and even taking timey wimey’ness into account they didn’t have a clue who he was, so they could hardly just be reacting to him…

The Daleks have one goal, to survive, in their eyes they are the only life form that deserves to do so, all other life forms are inferior and though some can be useful for a time, in the end extermination is the eventual outcome.

Now look what you’ve done, you’ve made me sound like a Whovian NeoCon!

Would you prefer to be called Magnus, or the War Chief?

 

[Starkers]

War Chief please

 

[Candlelight]

Last series we learned that "Doctor who?" is the question that must never be answered. And this episode we learned at least one race that's asking the question.

That's a very good point. Remains to be seen if it's do with others asking the question, or the Doctor himself (he was saying it himself).

 

[Guy Gardener]

"evil" doesn't mean anything.

The Daleks are xenophobes.

Their end game is to be the only life form in the universe.

After they discovered time travel, then they wanted to be the only life form ever.

Then they discovered mirror universes... Well you get the point.

NonDalek lifeforms are a sickening abomination that have to be put out of their misery.

They have a clear and present agenda no different from when they were the Kaleds, and frankly little different to how the Thals thought either, so factually they are are just following their bliss.

Although bliss probably doesn't exist either.

 

[MacLeod]

The Doctor is only nine hundred odd years old. He really can't have been everywhere and seen everything in a universe of millions of galaxies that is some 15 billion years old. I do wish the new series would get off the omniscient and omnipresent Doctor routine that has him having affected and changed just about every civilization he runs into.

Well the Doctor is lying about his age in the 1963-1989 era we heard an age closer to the 1000 year mark.

As for the Galaxy being 15bn years old, remember we've seen him travel to Event One (The Big Bang) and the year 100 trillion, to almost the end of the Universe. So he has had far more than 15bn years to play in.

Yes sometimes when the Doctor comes to visit he impacts a civilisation as a whole, sometimes it's more of a personal impact.

 

[Gov Kodos]

Yes, thanks. I was only thinking up to now. I have a problem with thinking fourth dimensionally.

 

[Mr Awe]

If only we hadn't fought Hitler the German army probably would have just given up, turned their guns into ploughshares and planted pretty pretty flowers everywhere...

FFS...

I agree with this. The Doctor *had* to fight the Daleks because they were already evil. It's possible that by defeating the Daleks at various points that they were motivated to improve their game. However, without the Doctor, the Daleks would've been able to conquer more despite being less motivated/skilled. And, after the Doctor's interventions, they may have been a bit more motivated/skilled, but they conquered less.

But, make no mistake. The Daleks were always evil and were always intent on enslaving and exterminating all other lifeforms.

Having said that, I can see how given the situation in the modern Whoniverse, the Daleks, as they currently are, might rest on their laurels if they are unaware of the Doctor. If that's the angle Moffatt is taking, that's fine. No point stirring up a beehive if you don't have to.

But, to suggest that the Doctor shouldn't have intervened before is just preposterous!

Mr Awe

 

[Mister Fandango]

But, to suggest that the Doctor shouldn't have intervened before is just preposterous

I don't recall anyone saying that at any point in the discussion. Just like no one has said the Daleks weren't evil. This episode, however, directly stated that the Doctor's interactions with them upgraded them from being evil to EEEEEEEEEEEVIL!!!!!!. And yes, there is a sizable difference between the two, no matter how some posters would like to downplay them.

 

[Methos]

But, to suggest that the Doctor shouldn't have intervened before is just preposterous!

Again, playing devils advocate here...

it's possible that The Doctor... or another Time Lord's 'intervention' in The Daleks, is what started the Time War in the first place...

Take for example Genesis of the Daleks... Where The Doctor (4th) goes back in time to actively prevent the Dalek's from ever being created... he failed admittedly, famously asking "Do I have the right?" when confronted with the possibility of wiping out the entire Dalek race... it's very possible that this first strike by the Time Lords, linearly speaking, is what caused the Dalek's to rise against the Time Lords in the first place...

M

 

[The Wormhole]

^^According to RTD, that was the start of the Time War.

 

[PorthosShadow]

^^According to RTD, that was the start of the Time War.

It would be interesting ala DS9's "Trials & Tribulations" if they could bring the current series into "Genesis Of The Daleks" and tell a story involving that episode.

 

[marillion]

So... According to an article on SyFy Blastr, the BBC America premier was 1.55 million viewers, making it an all time record for the network... On the BBC, it pulled 6 million plus, making it the least viewed.. That said, it easily won it's time slot... Guess one can't have cake and eat it too...

 

[Bob The Skutter]

So... According to an article on SyFy Blastr, the BBC America premier was 1.55 million viewers, making it an all time record for the network... On the BBC, it pulled 6 million plus, making it the least viewed.. That said, it easily won it's time slot... Guess one can't have cake and eat it too...

Ratings are down all over our TV, it seems. I believe X-Factor has been taking it's lowest ratings ever this year, too. And ITV lost out to Channel 5 in the ratings just the other night, I think I saw somewhere.

 

[VDCNI]

But, to suggest that the Doctor shouldn't have intervened before is just preposterous

I don't recall anyone saying that at any point in the discussion. Just like no one has said the Daleks weren't evil. This episode, however, directly stated that the Doctor's interactions with them upgraded them from being evil to EEEEEEEEEEEVIL!!!!!!. And yes, there is a sizable difference between the two, no matter how some posters would like to downplay them.

So what is that difference? In their second story where they doesn't show any recognition of the Doctor they invaded Earth, planning to use it to travel around and conquer the universe. What have they done since which is such a step up?

 

[VDCNI]

So... According to an article on SyFy Blastr, the BBC America premier was 1.55 million viewers, making it an all time record for the network... On the BBC, it pulled 6 million plus, making it the least viewed.. That said, it easily won it's time slot... Guess one can't have cake and eat it too...

Least viewed what? It's not the lowest overnight rating the show has had, it will have a massive time shift anyway.

 

[Bob The Skutter]

So... According to an article on SyFy Blastr, the BBC America premier was 1.55 million viewers, making it an all time record for the network... On the BBC, it pulled 6 million plus, making it the least viewed.. That said, it easily won it's time slot... Guess one can't have cake and eat it too...

Least viewed what? It's not the lowest overnight rating the show has had, it will have a massive time shift anyway.

Least viewed first episode of any series, I believe.

 

[Green Lantern]

Did the Daleks manage to exterminate anyone during this episode? I'm trying to think of an example, but I can't-- everyone dead was dead before it began!

No one has been exterminated since Moffat came in. NOW DO YOU ALL SEE THE PROBLEM WITH MOFFAT?

NO! I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IT, AND GIVEN THE STORIES THE DALEKS HAVE APPEARED IN, THE LACK OF EXTERMINATIONS IS TOTALLY APPROPRIATE.

(So one of the things that you dislike about Moffat-Who is that there aren't enough people being brutally killed? Seriously? Wow...Classy.)

One of the many things, yes. Look, it's a dr who tradtiion to get exterminated. It's like the dr never using his sonic screwdriver or him bragging about he has a tardis, but never uses it.

Did the Daleks manage to exterminate anyone during this episode? I'm trying to think of an example, but I can't-- everyone dead was dead before it began!

No one has been exterminated since Moffat came in. NOW DO YOU ALL SEE THE PROBLEM WITH MOFFAT?

Yes, we've established in another thread that you seem to be all about the blood and guts. Personally, I much prefer the psychological approach to horror which Moffat used here. Much scarier than some nut jumping out at you with an ax. (And we always have the Cybermen for that anyways. )

EDIT: Unless of course you're joking. I still can't tell.
Not joking. As I said up there, it's a dr who tradition.

But then, Doctor Who is a British show for primarily British people, whose understanding of a parliament will be a democratically elected body. And the Chinese wouldn't be calling it a parliament either, because they are chinese.

That's incredibly ethnocentric for a discussion of a show about exploring the universe hosted on a forum created thanks to a show featuring infinite diversity in infinite combinations.

One side thought: I loved the reference to Barbara when we see The Doctor through the Dalek's eyestalk and he throws his arms all around the door frame.

I completely missed that reference! Awesome.

Did the Daleks manage to exterminate anyone during this episode? I'm trying to think of an example, but I can't-- everyone dead was dead before it began!

No one has been exterminated since Moffat came in. NOW DO YOU ALL SEE THE PROBLEM WITH MOFFAT?

If this is a problem, then I don't want to be well. The show is great.

The show is bellow average.

 

[VDCNI]

Last year was 6.5m wasn't it though so 6.4m isn't really much of a drop.

 

[marillion]

So... According to an article on SyFy Blastr, the BBC America premier was 1.55 million viewers, making it an all time record for the network... On the BBC, it pulled 6 million plus, making it the least viewed.. That said, it easily won it's time slot... Guess one can't have cake and eat it too...

Least viewed what? It's not the lowest overnight rating the show has had, it will have a massive time shift anyway.

Least viewed first episode of any series, I believe.

Correct.. Thanks.. I forgot to put that part on there.

 

[Professor Zoom]

The show is bellow average.

If this is average, great might kill me.