Was disapointed a bit by the lack of pre 2005 daleks, but overall it was enjoyable. One of the best Moffat episodes, but that's not much of an ahivement. Would have worked better as a two part episode, or as a RTD style arc. What do you think?
7X01 Asylum Of The Daleks (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!)
- Thread starter Samurai8472
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I haven't read the rest of the thread (yet) but I loved this episode. Through and through. Easily the best Dalek episode since "Dalek" and one of Moffat's best episodes in recent time.
Some people went into this expecting a masturbatory "Every Dalek but the Kitchen Sink Dalek" overblown, nonsensical thrill ride to give RTD a run for his money. Instead I found this to be a quieter, atmospheric, more personal story, a story that the Daleks richly deserve, one which they haven't gotten since "Dalek" (or Big Finish's I, Davros).
Were all of the Daleks we've ever seen in the history of show in it? Yes, they were, but they weren't in your face "Look at us! We're all of the Daleks ever!" Instead they were just there. An asylum planet full of broken Daleks and Daleks defeated by The Doctor was the perfect way of getting away with that.
At first, I wasn't sure if I liked the idea of humanoid Daleks (I read about this appearance before I saw the episode), especially after the disaster that was "Daleks in Manhattan"/"Evolution of the Daleks," but I found them to be effectively creepy and reasonably believable (as believable as one can be in Doctor Who).
As for the Rory/Amy conflict, I didn't like it at first because I thought it was going to be an unnecessary divide to create conflict and then have them slowly fall in love with each other in the upcoming episode. However, once Amy and Rory argued about the split and we learned what led to it, it felt a bit more natural and fit fairly well with the episode. I'm still not sure if it was necessary but I'm willing to accept it as long as we're back to Amy and Rory being a couple (but with things to work out obviously).
And now for Oswin. Simply said, I adore her. But I'm a sucker for a brunette in a red dress wearing red trainers and a utility belt. I mean, who isn't? Then you through in the dimples and the whimsical wit, you've got yourself a winning character. I'm not sure why, but she felt like a Big Finish companion. I can't give any rhyme or reason for it, but it was a random thought I had during the episode. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised by her ultimate fate. I certainly didn't expect her to be properly rescued considering that we know she doesn't become a full-fledged companion until the Christmas episode. Nonetheless, I was shocked by the revelation that she was a Dalek and a shed a tear regarding her fate.
One side thought: I loved the reference to Barbara when we see The Doctor through the Dalek's eyestalk and he throws his arms all around the door frame.
One final thought (I swear!): I loved the twist of Oswin wiping the memories of The Doctor from all of the Daleks' minds. Hopefully this will play into the more low-key Doctor that was set-up the end of last season.
Yeah I think overall it was a far subtler episode than many were expecting, but I don't think that was a bad thing. I think it felt very second Doctor'y, don't know if anyone else got that vibe...helps that Jena came across somewhat Zoe like.
It's odd, when I saw the first pics of her I didn't think she was my type, and seeing her interviewed didn't fill me with hope, but actually finally seeing her in character I thought she was great, adorable and it'll be nice to have a proper genius companion again...always assuming it is her and now her great grandmother or anything!
and yeah I like the notion of the Daleks not having a clue who the Doctor is. Moffat wasn't kidding about this low profile bit...
Did the Daleks manage to exterminate anyone during this episode? I'm trying to think of an example, but I can't-- everyone dead was dead before it began!
I think you're right. I wonder if this is a first?
I thought Moffet managed to give the Daleks back some of their original menace....i loved the Daleks waking up and trying to say EXTERMINATE!!!.
Wow, that's impressive, so about 10% if the normal audience number? Good on Auntie for making it available.
I generally call nitpicking bitching. Your complaints about the plot of the episode are valid, but this is just nitpicking. My point with the Owls is that you haven't any idea what the Dalek Parliament constitutes and neither do I.
Do me a favor. Go to the main Doctor Who page. Scroll down to moderators. Then come back here.
The history of Who (of most sci-fi in fact) is replete with alien races using human terms/titles, but they rarely mean the same thing as they do on Earth.
The Daleks also had an Emperor, the Timelords had a President and a Castellan and a Chancellor, the Sontarans have generals and commanders…
The word parliament comes from the French parler, which means to talk or to discuss. So rather than imagine this is a Dalek Westminster, perhaps it’s just the Skaro University debating society?
(And yes I cribbed that last bit from Wikipedia…well apart from the Skaro University debating society obviously
)
The Daleks also had an Emperor, the Timelords had a President and a Castellan and a Chancellor, the Sontarans have generals and commanders…
The word parliament comes from the French parler, which means to talk or to discuss. So rather than imagine this is a Dalek Westminster, perhaps it’s just the Skaro University debating society?
(And yes I cribbed that last bit from Wikipedia…well apart from the Skaro University debating society obviously
)
Do debating societies often have Prime Ministers?
They might on Skaro...
But again we've seen Prime Ministers in sci-fi, take the Centauri in Babylon 5.
At the end of the day it's just shorthand to give the audience an idea of what they're dealing with. Whether you think this is acceptable or not is another matter, and obviously there's the school of thought that says you should invent something alien sounding, but both schools of thought have been used throughout Who.
And really, for people who weren't keen on this episode, would your enjoyment have increased if it'd been something like this instead?
"Not any space ship, Amy, this is the Zyklomindfarb of the Daleks! Which means the Dalek Kibblerouser must be around here somewhere..."
But again we've seen Prime Ministers in sci-fi, take the Centauri in Babylon 5.
At the end of the day it's just shorthand to give the audience an idea of what they're dealing with. Whether you think this is acceptable or not is another matter, and obviously there's the school of thought that says you should invent something alien sounding, but both schools of thought have been used throughout Who.
And really, for people who weren't keen on this episode, would your enjoyment have increased if it'd been something like this instead?
"Not any space ship, Amy, this is the Zyklomindfarb of the Daleks! Which means the Dalek Kibblerouser must be around here somewhere..."
But they also had a Prime Minister so it did sound like Dalek Westminster. But ok, they turned into democrats, I can live with that. I just thought it was a little odd and unexpected, given all that we know about them. However, it could also make for an interesting side story to explore but the episode didn't go into it, at all, and no one was surprised by it so why was this concept introduced?
The episode was ok while I was watching it but once you start thinking about it for a few minutes, it kind of falls apart. (For me, anyway) The nanoprobes thing came off as an arbitrary obstacle. Why would it be in place anyway? Can't the Daleks on the planet deal with any intruders (of which there probably wouldn't be that many, anyway)? The way it worked (turning organic matter into inorganic one, people retaining their memory despite being dead, the procedure working on dead people) also bugged me but Doctor Who science has always been decidedly unscientific.
Speaking of the Dalek-controlled humans, is anyone else worried about them being on Earth and able to grab Rory and Amy? I wonder who else they've replaced. Maybe all the world's leaders are secretly Daleks now and they're going to take over any minute.
There's also the issue of Skaro Daleks from earlier adventures existing which was already discussed in the thread. I suppose with the universe rebooted, everything is like in the old series except for the Timelords.
The "Doctor Who" bit at the end came off as silly to me. It shouldn't have gone on as long as it did. It was almost like a parody. The preview for next week also came off like that with its title. But I hope it'll be a better episode.
I liked the scenes in the Asylum - quite tense and exciting. And I liked Oswin's storyline although I suspected pretty early on that she's really a Dalek. Still, the way we got to see a different side of the Daleks that way, and that they are individuals reminded me of "Dalek".
The episode was ok while I was watching it but once you start thinking about it for a few minutes, it kind of falls apart. (For me, anyway) The nanoprobes thing came off as an arbitrary obstacle. Why would it be in place anyway? Can't the Daleks on the planet deal with any intruders (of which there probably wouldn't be that many, anyway)? The way it worked (turning organic matter into inorganic one, people retaining their memory despite being dead, the procedure working on dead people) also bugged me but Doctor Who science has always been decidedly unscientific.
Speaking of the Dalek-controlled humans, is anyone else worried about them being on Earth and able to grab Rory and Amy? I wonder who else they've replaced. Maybe all the world's leaders are secretly Daleks now and they're going to take over any minute.
There's also the issue of Skaro Daleks from earlier adventures existing which was already discussed in the thread. I suppose with the universe rebooted, everything is like in the old series except for the Timelords.
The "Doctor Who" bit at the end came off as silly to me. It shouldn't have gone on as long as it did. It was almost like a parody. The preview for next week also came off like that with its title. But I hope it'll be a better episode.
I liked the scenes in the Asylum - quite tense and exciting. And I liked Oswin's storyline although I suspected pretty early on that she's really a Dalek. Still, the way we got to see a different side of the Daleks that way, and that they are individuals reminded me of "Dalek".
No, but we know the Daleks have Davros, an Emperor and Supremes, where is the need in adding a Parliament and a Prime Minister? Also going with Parliament and Prime Minister sounds like they're a democracy, which would seem hugely out of character for Daleks.
To be fair it's been that way for most of the past 2 series. I did enjoy series 5 but 6 just had too much "If you think about it this doesn't work" stuff going on for me to not question it.
It just struck me that this episode would have worked better as a Cyberman story. This would explain the human conversion aspect. Also, the human-like units would make more sense. They're just more human looking cybernetic people. And, it doesn't run contrary to the established ruling structure as far as I know. The Dalek's already had their emperor but I don't know that the Cybermen had a top ruler established?
Mr Awe
Mr Awe
A Prime Minister hasn't always equated to democracy, the notion of a directly elected pm is still relatively recent.
Without meaning to be churlish most films/tv do, for me at least I think my ability to nitpick/or ignore nitpicks just comes down to whether I enjoyed an episode or not. I'm just more forgiving of stories I liked.
Wouldn't be the first time
Doctor Who? is steering just the right side of parody for me at the moment. It is, after all, a legitimate question.
I think we can safely assume next week's is supposed to be as silly as the title suggests.
I didn't figure she was an actual Dalek, I just thought she'd been robotised.
On another topic a few have raised, in reference to the Daleks use fo the pathweb (or whatever it was called) and nanogenes, they've always evolved, if they hadn't we'd still have Daleks who could only move around on metal tracks, or Daleks who all had big satellite dishes stuck to their backsides...
Yeah, it's been like that for me, too, with the difference that I didn't really enjoy it very much for the most part (I loved "Vincent and the Doctor" though) which is why I gave up watching after "Let's kill Hitler". The Christmas Special was ok and I thought I might try again with the new series, especially since there will be a new companion and often that's like starting over.