Why is batman always black in the films?

[Christopher]

I didn't say I wanted Batman turned black as some sort of statement. That's exactly the opposite of what I'm saying. I just said that when I was trying to figure out who the best actor for the role would be at the time, the person that I thought came closest -- in terms of his physical size, presence, voice, leading-man looks, etc. -- was Michael Dorn, and I didn't think it mattered that he was black. He would've been good in the role, and that's all that was important. (Although of course he wouldn't have had the opportunity, what with being a Star Trek regular for a record-setting eleven consecutive seasons.) Of course, if an African-American (or Asian, or Native American, or whatever) actor did get cast as Batman, it could open the door to some new story possibilities that haven't been dealt with in Batman before, but that's not the reason for doing it, it's just a fortuitous side effect. Finding a new angle, a new perspective on a familiar story, is usually a good thing.

 

[sidious618]

I agree with Christopher in regards to casting racially blind. You cast who is best for the part and race shouldn't play into it unless it absolutely needs to. Personally, I don't much care for Michael Dorn's acting but a black actor would be fine for me if he worked in the part.

 

[Admiral2]

I didn't say I wanted Batman turned black as some sort of statement. That's exactly the opposite of what I'm saying. I just said that when I was trying to figure out who the best actor for the role would be at the time, the person that I thought came closest -- in terms of his physical size, presence, voice, leading-man looks, etc. -- was Michael Dorn, and I didn't think it mattered that he was black. He would've been good in the role, and that's all that was important. (Although of course he wouldn't have had the opportunity, what with being a Star Trek regular for a record-setting eleven consecutive seasons.) Of course, if an African-American (or Asian, or Native American, or whatever) actor did get cast as Batman, it could open the door to some new story possibilities that haven't been dealt with in Batman before, but that's not the reason for doing it, it's just a fortuitous side effect. Finding a new angle, a new perspective on a familiar story, is usually a good thing.

How does Michael Dorn come closer to looking and sounding like Batman than Michael Keaton, Christian Bale or any one of a boatload of white male actors with alto or bass voices and square jaws that I can name?

As I'm forever saying in these threads, if you're going to bring a comic book to life, I want to see it hew as close to the source material as possible. It isn't just about acting ability. I'm pretty sure Michael Dorn could act like Batman. I'm pretty sure James Earl Jones could act like Batman, but I wouldn't cast either of them as Batman in a live action movie because neither of them looks like a square-jawed white guy in his thirties. I wouldn't put it past Hollywood to do it, but it wouldn't be solely for the lofty or literary reasons you stated and you know it. They'd be doing it because some liberal said "It's about time, yadda yadda..." and they'd go into a PC panic.

 

[Greg Cox]

If we're going to discuss this seriously then I'll state that I've been dismayed at Hollywood's recent trend of recasting white comic book characters as black, because there's no reason to do it other than political correctness, as if they think black comic book fans would boycott in droves if they didn't de-white some of the superhero landscape.

It's not just about political correctness or trying to attract black fans. It's more about acknowledging that times change and nowadays you don't have to stick to the restrictions imposed on comic book creators in previous eras.

The fact of the matter is that the most of the really iconic comic book series were created back when all-white casts were taken for granted. Bruce Wayne and Lois Lane and Reed Richards were white because there wasn't really any other choice back in the day.

So if you want to stay literally true to the way the characters were originally portrayed . . . well, we're going to be stuck with all-white casts forever, at least when it comes to classic comic book characters.

Which is silly when there's no particular reason, other than tradition, to insist that Pete Ross or the Kingpin or Perry White or Alicia Masters or whomever have to be white just because that's how they were first drawn fifty years ago . . . . .

The Lana Lang of the comics looks nothing like Kristin Kreuk. Didn't hurt SMALLVILLE's ratings one bit.

And before somebody brings up the Black Panther, let us just stipulate that, yes, some characters are less race-neutral than others. The fact that T'Challa is from a mythical African kingdom is one of his defining characteristics.

Unlike, say, Bruce Wayne, whose defining characteristic is that he saw his parents gunned down in alley and now strikes terror into the hearts of evil-doers . . ..

 

[tighr]

The Lana Lang of the comics looks nothing like Kristin Kreuk. Didn't hurt SMALLVILLE's ratings one bit.

Probably HELPED Smallville's ratings, actually. Well, at least until season 3, after which the character of Lana Lang became an unrelenting whiny bitch. Those writers really did Kristin a disservice with those plotlines...

 

[Skellington]

Well... he hasn't always worn black in the films...

http://spinoff.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/batmanandrobin.jpg

Ow! That image needs some kind of public health warning.

Grey works fine on the page, especially as it highlights the pitch-back Bat-insignia and gives the crims something to aim at. I guess that the movies use a different colour scheme because a suit that looks practical is going to lend itself more to darker colours.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

I didn't say I wanted Batman turned black as some sort of statement. That's exactly the opposite of what I'm saying. I just said that when I was trying to figure out who the best actor for the role would be at the time, the person that I thought came closest -- in terms of his physical size, presence, voice, leading-man looks, etc. -- was Michael Dorn,

Of course the question would be can he pull off the batglare.

and I didn't think it mattered that he was black. He would've been good in the role, and that's all that was important. (Although of course he wouldn't have had the opportunity, what with being a Star Trek regular for a record-setting eleven consecutive seasons.)

Of course if they did get him for a Batman show and cast say Mark Hamill as the Joker that would be pretty awesome

especially when you consider it would end in a case of Mr Worf kicking Luke Skywalker's butt in a fight

 

[sidious618]

How does Michael Dorn come closer to looking and sounding like Batman than Michael Keaton, Christian Bale or any one of a boatload of white male actors with alto or bass voices and square jaws that I can name?

As I'm forever saying in these threads, if you're going to bring a comic book to life, I want to see it hew as close to the source material as possible. It isn't just about acting ability. I'm pretty sure Michael Dorn could act like Batman. I'm pretty sure James Earl Jones could act like Batman, but I wouldn't cast either of them as Batman in a live action movie because neither of them looks like a square-jawed white guy in his thirties. I wouldn't put it past Hollywood to do it, but it wouldn't be solely for the lofty or literary reasons you stated and you know it. They'd be doing it because some liberal said "It's about time, yadda yadda..." and they'd go into a PC panic.

Oh, bullshit, not another pointless PC rant. Hiring an actor who a director thinks can do a good job is not PC, it's common bloody sense. It's a movie, it's not going to be exactly like the comic books nor should it be. Just look at Nolan's films which were not like the comic books at all.

 

[tighr]

Of course if they did get him for a Batman show and cast say Mark Hamill as the Joker that would be pretty awesome

especially when you consider it would end in a case of Mr Worf kicking Luke Skywalker's butt in a fight

Or The Sandman vs Cock-Knocker.

 

[Greg Cox]

It's a movie, it's not going to be exactly like the comic books nor should it be. Just look at Nolan's films which were not like the comic books at all.

Exactly. And even the comics update their looks every decade or so.

I mean, I assume nobody expects Clark and Lois to be wearing Depression-era fashions (complete with pillbox hats), driving vintage jalopies, and pounding out their scoops on manual typewriters. Comics (and comics adaptations) update the visuals to make them seem more contemporary all the time.

So why wouldn't that apply to those outmoded all-white casts as well?

 

[Skellington]

If we're going to discuss this seriously then I'll state that I've been dismayed at Hollywood's recent trend of recasting white comic book characters as black, because there's no reason to do it other than political correctness, as if they think black comic book fans would boycott in droves if they didn't de-white some of the superhero landscape.

I've got to disagree on this point, as (for instance) I think Idris Elba turned in an outstandingly godlike performance in Thor as Heimdall (who is not Norse but Asgardian and therefore may as well be black).

 

[Greg Cox]

If we're going to discuss this seriously then I'll state that I've been dismayed at Hollywood's recent trend of recasting white comic book characters as black, because there's no reason to do it other than political correctness, as if they think black comic book fans would boycott in droves if they didn't de-white some of the superhero landscape.

I've got to disagree on this point, as (for instance) I think Idris Elba turned in an outstandingly godlike performance in Thor as Heimdall (who is not Norse but Asgardian and therefore may as well be black).

Agreed. The whole "controversy" over Elba's casting was ridiculous because it's not like the original Lee/Kirby scifi version of Asgard was all that faithful to the original myths to begin with!

Plus, we're talking about Heimdall for pete's sake. Who cares that much about Heimdall? It's like getting one's knickers in a twist over the casting of Felix Leiter in a BOND movie. He's a minor supporting character . . . .

 

[tighr]

It's like getting one's knickers in a twist over the casting of Felix Leiter in a BOND movie. He's a minor supporting character . . . .

It makes re-reading Ian Fleming's Live and Let Die more interesting by picturing Felix as portrayed by Jeffery Wright. The racial overtones in the novel almost necessitate that Felix be white, otherwise you would have to completely rewrite the screenplay if it were to be adapted to film with a black actor cast as Felix.

Actually, as I read it, it does make me hope for a reboot set in the modern era, especially if Wright were invited back to portray Leiter. There are several themes that would be awesome to address in modern day New York/Harlem.

 

[Christopher]

It's such a silly double standard to me that people get more upset about an actor having the "wrong" skin color than they do about, say, Hugh Jackman being a foot taller than Wolverine. I mean, that one bugged me for years. A wolverine is a small, aggressive animal. Why would a 6'2" guy be called the Wolverine instead of the Wolf or the Bear or something? Although one of the few good things about X-Men Origins: Wolverine is that it came up with a believable explanation for how he got the nickname -- it was from a myth his murdered girlfriend told him and he adopted it to honor her.

 

[Greg Cox]

It's such a silly double standard to me that people get more upset about an actor having the "wrong" skin color than they do about, say, Hugh Jackman being a foot taller than Wolverine. I mean, that one bugged me for years. A wolverine is a small, aggressive animal. Why would a 6'2" guy be called the Wolverine instead of the Wolf or the Bear or something? Although one of the few good things about X-Men Origins: Wolverine is that it came up with a believable explanation for how he got the nickname -- it was from a myth his murdered girlfriend told him and he adopted it to honor her.

Exactly. I remember when the Daredevil movie came out, some irate fan insisted that a black Mafia kingpin was completely implausible and too ridiculous to be believed.

As opposed to a blind vigilante and an acrobatic Greek ninja?

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Oh, bullshit, not another pointless PC rant. Hiring an actor who a director thinks can do a good job is not PC, it's common bloody sense. It's a movie, it's not going to be exactly like the comic books nor should it be. Just look at Nolan's films which were not like the comic books at all.

It is PC in a way though since it only works one way, go the other way and it's "racebending".

And oh yeah, it'd be interesting to see a gray costume in film.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Exactly. I remember when the Daredevil movie came out, some irate fan insisted that a black Mafia kingpin was completely implausible and too ridiculous to be believed.

My only problem there was he wasn't bulky enough.

 

[Greg Cox]

Oh, bullshit, not another pointless PC rant. Hiring an actor who a director thinks can do a good job is not PC, it's common bloody sense. It's a movie, it's not going to be exactly like the comic books nor should it be. Just look at Nolan's films which were not like the comic books at all.

It is PC in a way though since it only works one way, go the other way and it's "racebending".

Because the power relations are different and it's not a level playing field. There are enough white pop culture characters that we can afford to play fast and loose with some of them, provided there are no distinguishing characteristics involved. (Nobody is suggesting that Chris Rock play Lord Greystoke or the Scarlet Pimpernel, unless, of course, it's a comedy.)

But, at present, there are so few high-profile roles tailored for people of color that it's a bit backwards to whitewash them. Especially given, say, the long history of white actors playing Charlie Chan or Fu Manchu.

Color-blind casting is a messy, complicated issue, but you can't simply divorce it from historical realities and power relations. Casting black actors as white characters does not have the same connotations and consequences as casting white actors as black characters.

And tighr: Don't forget Bernie Casey in Never Say Never Again. We've had at least two black Leiters in the Bond films . . .

 

[tighr]

Exactly. I remember when the Daredevil movie came out, some irate fan insisted that a black Mafia kingpin was completely implausible and too ridiculous to be believed.

Like Mr Big, from the aforementioned Live and Let Die? Black mafia kingpin. And that was 1953!

 

[Pingfah]

i thought it was a bit risque, but posted it for humor, not for the racism...

M

Are you sure you understood the joke?

Risque is not the word I would use, the sexual pun is secondary to the wordplay on racial stereotypes, that of black people as criminals.

Not trying to patronise, just wondering if maybe you didn't realise the joke it was making...