MU: Rise Like Lions by David Mack Review Thread (Spoilers!)

[Admiral_Young]

Re: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions by David Mack Review Thread (Spoi

@Sci I doubt that Starfleet was a generic term used for the fleet, and even if it was, there are still certain overtones that come with it in the Mirror Universe for those who remember the tranny of the Empire, not to mention the very existence of Memory Omega seems to be about preventing the mistakes of the past and moving into a new future. The Commonwealth being a new space power would not want to "rock the boat" sort to speak or give impressions they were revisiting that past in any way. That would not be beneficial to their forward thinking process IMO.

 

[Sci]

Re: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions by David Mack Review Thread (Spoi

@Sci I doubt that Starfleet was a generic term used for the fleet, and even if it was, there are still certain overtones that come with it in the Mirror Universe for those who remember the tranny of the Empire, not to mention the very existence of Memory Omega seems to be about preventing the mistakes of the past and moving into a new future. The Commonwealth being a new space power would not want to "rock the boat" sort to speak or give impressions they were revisiting that past in any way. That would not be beneficial to their forward thinking process IMO.

I think that everything you suggested about what the Commonwealth would do is entirely plausible. I just also think the possibility that the word "Starfleet" is seen as a generic term rather than a specific term, like "Air Force" or "Navy" or "Luftwaffe," is also possible.

(After all, there was a lot of resentment of the Kingdom of Great Britain and its armed forces when the Thirteen Colonies declared independence -- yet no one suggested we should call it the United States Maritime Forces just to avoid using the same word in its name as the Royal Navy.)

 

[Christopher]

Re: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions by David Mack Review Thread (Spoi

I think "Starfleet" is a pretty darn generic name for a fleet of starships. And according to the OED, it's been used in other works of fiction besides Star Trek, and while ST popularized the term, there's at least one documented use of "star fleet" preceding ST, from a 1939 story by Lester Del Rey.

Besides, at the time the Commonwealth comes into being, the Terran Empire's been extinct for over 85 years. I think more people would remember the tyranny of the Klingon-Cardassian Alliance by that point.

 

[Sci]

Re: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions by David Mack Review Thread (Spoi

I think "Starfleet" is a pretty darn generic name for a fleet of starships. And according to the OED, it's been used in other works of fiction besides Star Trek, and while ST popularized the term, there's at least one documented use of "star fleet" preceding ST, from a 1939 story by Lester Del Rey.

To be fair, "Starfleet" is used as a specific proper noun, too. Very rarely do characters say "the Starfleet" the way modern people will say "the Navy" or "the Air Force." So I can understand where Admiral_Young is coming from on that, too -- I just disagree, precisely because the word itself sounds so generic.

Besides, at the time the Commonwealth comes into being, the Terran Empire's been extinct for over 85 years. I think more people would remember the tyranny of the Klingon-Cardassian Alliance by that point.

Well, I think it's safe to say that people would probably remember both. The Third Reich's been gone for almost as long in real life as the Terran Empire had been when Rise Like Lions ends, but it's not like the memory of Nazi Germany is in any danger of being supplanted by the memory of East Germany just because it's the more recent tyranny.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Re: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions by David Mack Review Thread (Spoi

I am arguing using the thinking that Starfleet isn't just a generic space naval term, but the name of an organization, I guess we both disagree...I'll concede though that it could be thought of in a more wide spread sense. I have just always looked at the usage of it as the generally accepted "title" of the Federation and Empire's space fleet. We could call the Commonwealth Fleet, the Omega Fleet That's pretty generic though as well I guess.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Re: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions by David Mack Review Thread (Spoi

The way I look at it is: 'Star fleet', as two words, is indeed a generic term that could apply to any space fleet. 'Starfleet', as ONE word, is a proper noun which applies to the fleet operated by the Federation (or the Terran Empire).

To put it another way: The Galactic Commonwealth maintains a star fleet, but not a Starfleet.

those who remember the tranny of the Empire

Admiral Frank N. Furter?

 

[MatthiasRussell]

Re: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions by David Mack Review Thread (Spoi

I was just watching "Through the Looking Glass" in DS9, season 3 and noticed that Sisko called mirror Jadzia "Dax". No one objected or looked confused.

 

[DS9forever]

Re: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions by David Mack Review Thread (Spoi

^ The author posted something about that somewhere in this thread I think. It was something like MU Trill taking the names of deceased symbionts (only Memory Omega knew Dax was still alive) to honor their memory.

 

[Defcon]

Re: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions by David Mack Review Thread (Spoi

^ The author posted something about that somewhere in this thread I think. It was something like MU Trill taking the names of deceased symbionts (only Memory Omega knew Dax was still alive) to honor their memory.

http://www.trekbbs.com/showpost.php?p=5396921&postcount=78

 

[Christopher]

Re: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions by David Mack Review Thread (Spoi

Actually, Jadzia did frown in puzzlement when Sisko called her "Dax" in "Through the Looking Glass." The intent, of course, was that she was surprised that Sisko was less violent than the man she'd known, but it could also be read as "What did he just call me?"

Jennifer later refers to her as Dax while speaking with Sisko, but maybe she picked that up from him.

 

[David Mack]

Re: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions by David Mack Review Thread (Spoi

Actually, Jadzia did frown in puzzlement when Sisko called her "Dax" in "Through the Looking Glass." The intent, of course, was that she was surprised that Sisko was less violent than the man she'd known, but it could also be read as "What did he just call me?"

Jennifer later refers to her as Dax while speaking with Sisko, but maybe she picked that up from him.

These were my assumptions, as well.

 

[T'Bonz]

Re: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions by David Mack Review Thread (Spoi

I got this as one of my Mother's Day gifts. Enjoyed it thoroughly.

 

[JD]

Re: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions by David Mack Review Thread (Spoi

I just finished this a couple minutes ago, and all I can say is wow. I absolutely loved every moment of it. I've been a big fan of the Mirror Universe since I first saw Crossover, and what Trek Lit has done with it has been awesome. I really liked the way it tied together all of the various threads set up by the earlier stories into one coherent conclusion. Absolutely amazing.
My Rating: 10/10. Poll vote: Outstanding.

 

[David Mack]

Re: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions by David Mack Review Thread (Spoi

Thanks! Very kind of you to say. Glad you dug it.

 

[stonester1]

Re: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions by David Mack Review Thread (Spoi

The way I look at it is: 'Star fleet', as two words, is indeed a generic term that could apply to any space fleet. 'Starfleet', as ONE word, is a proper noun which applies to the fleet operated by the Federation (or the Terran Empire).

To put it another way: The Galactic Commonwealth maintains a star fleet, but not a Starfleet.

those who remember the tranny of the Empire

Admiral Frank N. Furter?

Hence, the game "Star Fleet Battles" is NOT called "Starfleet Battles", since even though it is based in the TrekU, it is more than about the forces deployed by the United Federation of Planets.

 

[dispatcher812]

Finished it today and all I can say is "WOW". I had started this universe but stopped when I reached Shards and Shadows. For some reason I did feel the need to move on. While on vacation and in need of a book I purchased it and then moved to Rise Like Lions. I wish I would have made the move sooner. This book was incredible. I did not want to put it down. Great job Mr Mack. I look forward to more of your books. I must admit I did not purchase the extended version of The Sorrows of Empire, simple because I did want to buy a book I had already read. However, seeing here that it explains ALOT more and the fact that it is written by Mr Mack, It is next on my list.

It what story was the MU Columbia in? And the Borg? I don't remember them.

 

[David Mack]

Finished it today and all I can say is "WOW". I had started this universe but stopped when I reached Shards and Shadows. For some reason I did feel the need to move on. While on vacation and in need of a book I purchased it and then moved to Rise Like Lions. I wish I would have made the move sooner. This book was incredible. I did not want to put it down. Great job Mr Mack.

Thanks!

I look forward to more of your books. I must admit I did not purchase the extended version of The Sorrows of Empire, simple because I did want to buy a book I had already read. However, seeing here that it explains ALOT more and the fact that it is written by Mr Mack, It is next on my list.

Yes, that wasn't just a reprint — I expanded it to more than twice its original length. Hope you enjoy it!

It what story was the MU Columbia in? And the Borg? I don't remember them.

I don't remember a Mirror Universe version of the Columbia. I recall that the MU Borg appeared in Greg Cox's short novel The Worst of Both Worlds, in the first MU anthology, Glass Empires. The only story I know of that features both the Columbia and the Borg is my Destiny trilogy, but that has no Mirror Universe component.

 

[Mage]

Do you need to read ALL the Mirror Universe short stories from the three Mirror Universe novels, or is reading The Sorrows Of Empires enough before you start Rise Like Lions?

I have read the DS9 Relaunch MU novels.

 

[Christopher]

Do you need to read ALL the Mirror Universe short stories from the three Mirror Universe novels, or is reading The Sorrows Of Empires enough before you start Rise Like Lions?

I have read the DS9 Relaunch MU novels.

Umm, terminology.. There are three MU anthologies, the first two of which, Glass Empires and Obsidian Alliances, contain three short novels apiece, while the third, Shards and Shadows, contains a number of short stories. Of course you don't need to read them all to understand Rise Like Lions; you can probably follow it well enough all by itself. But it does help if you've read the short-novel anthologies. As for the short stories in Shards and Shadows, some are referenced to an extent, while others (including mine, alas) are not.

 

[David Mack]

Do you need to read ALL the Mirror Universe short stories from the three Mirror Universe novels, or is reading The Sorrows Of Empires enough before you start Rise Like Lions?

I have read the DS9 Relaunch MU novels.

As Christopher noted, I tried to provide all essential details in the text of Rise Like Lions so that one can simply jump in and start reading.

That said, I made a great effort to incorporate and continue as many 24th-century story threads as possible from my peers' MU tales, in all three MU anthologies. I found it a bit daunting to reconcile and merge many previously unrelated story arcs from all the short stories, but in the end I think they knitted together fairly well.