Threshold: Why we should be proud

[R. Star]

The most disturbing part of Threshold is that Janeway and Paris didn't seem to care about their children. Troi cared about her begotten in a weird and alien way child.

You'd think the technobabble whatever that reversed them could be applied to the babies too.

Maybe that's what happens in the fanfics.

And yes you would think they would want to save these babies from dying alone in the mud, eaten by some predator. You would think they would want to reverse them into human babies.

Eh, if Janeway and Paris can conceive and give birth within a day, those things probably grow up pretty dang quick. With their tribble like metabolisms and reproductive rates they could have formed a planet wide empire by the time Voyager got back to Earth.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

This is why we need a Voyager movie.

 

[Alpha Flyer]

I prefer to wonder why rather than ignore it. One thing that never gets addressed is if the salamanders are even sentient. Is the peak of evolution actually a devolution? Since Janeway was hellbent on determining sentience in all kinds of stuff it seems that they must have decided these were nothing more than salamanders.

I like that theory. I think I'll adopt it! Resolves all kinds of issues ...

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Yes it neatly redeems them all BUT it's not nearly as interesting as abandoned offspring out there somewhere who will one day arrive on their doorsteps.

 

[Alpha Flyer]

Yes it neatly redeems them all BUT it's not nearly as interesting as abandoned offspring out there somewhere who will one day arrive on their doorsteps.

On which latter topic you (I believe) recently unearthed a lovely fanfic, called "Child Support" on another thread:

http://www.loggods.com/pestilence/voyager/childsupport.htm

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

No it wasn't me, I've actually read almost no fanfic.

This is why I need a kindle.

OH WAIT..

Yes I unearthed that, for the pic

Let's all look at it again:

 

[Lynx]

No it wasn't me, I've actually read almost no fanfic.

This is why I need a kindle.

OH WAIT..

Yes I unearthed that, for the pic

Let's all look at it again:

Now, that drawing really made my day! And not only mine! I saw it and started to laugh and my not so Star Trek interested workmates wondered what was happening. It ended up with 5 people staring, laughing and smiling at the picture.

A masterpiece!

Not to mention that itave me some ideas too. Wouldn't it be something for an upcoming Voyager Relaunch book or a movie to have Voyager going back to the Delta Quadrant to seek for Janeway's and Paris's kids? And when they finally arrives to the planet, the first lizard kid they encounter says: "I'm the Lizard King. I can do anything!"

Of course, a movie version should have the actual Doors song "Not To Touch The Earth" as background music.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

"I'm the Lizard King. I can do anything!"

I always remember how this friend of mine in high school had a Jim Morrison album playng and it was some sexual poetry he was monotoning.. and her mother came into the room, SNATCHED the record off the turntable and broke it over her knee.

Yes, it was a long time ago. What record it was, I've forgotten.

I'm more and more of a mind that the forgotten lizard babies need to be redeemed. I'm tired of them being a joke. Remember when Starbuck was told that her ovum had been used by the cylons and resulted in a child? She like, default bonded. Janeway is ever maternal towards her crew. I can't believe she would not be maternal toward her actual genetic offspring.

 

[Deckerd]

Yeah but it turned out not to be her child but someone they stole from her actual mother. I think the 'genetic bond' is bollocks anyway. You bond with a baby through close proximity over time and the same goes for the baby.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Yes she default bonded by the mere IDEA that the child existed.

Janeway actually saw the babies. It's gotta eat at her.

 

[CommanderRaytas]

Lizard sex is pretty hot. And scaly. Trust me.

On the other hand, Paris and Janeway turned into salamanders, not lizards. Disgusting little buggers, all of them.

Thanks for the heads-up, but I was only joking. I was going to say frogs, at first.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

But now you know CommanderRaytas. For future reference. About the lizard sex.

 

[CommanderRaytas]

But now you know CommanderRaytas. For future reference. About the lizard sex.

Of course. It has been duly noted.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Yes it neatly redeems them all BUT it's not nearly as interesting as abandoned offspring out there somewhere who will one day arrive on their doorsteps.

On which latter topic you (I believe) recently unearthed a lovely fanfic, called "Child Support" on another thread:

http://www.loggods.com/pestilence/voyager/childsupport.htm

"He built a trans-warp engine out of sticks."

"Frankie Parisway"

[Janeway to Paris]
“Why Frankie?”
“At the time I wasn’t sure if he was a boy
or a girl… Frankie is one of those useful
transgender names”

 

[Lynx]

"I'm the Lizard King. I can do anything!"

I always remember how this friend of mine in high school had a Jim Morrison album playng and it was some sexual poetry he was monotoning.. and her mother came into the room, SNATCHED the record off the turntable and broke it over her knee.

Yes, it was a long time ago. What record it was, I've forgotten.

I'm more and more of a mind that the forgotten lizard babies need to be redeemed. I'm tired of them being a joke. Remember when Starbuck was told that her ovum had been used by the cylons and resulted in a child? She like, default bonded. Janeway is ever maternal towards her crew. I can't believe she would not be maternal toward her actual genetic offspring.

The mother broke the record? That's almost blasphemy, destroying a precious Doors record. Fortunately, my parents never reacted that way but they didn't have English as their native langage and didn't have a clue what I was playing on records or tapes.

As for the lizards, well if my original theory about a nightmare is the correct and accepted one, then there's no problem. It was all a dream.

But if not, then we could have some great stories to look forward to. What about "The Revenge Of The Abandoned Lizards"? The lizards sneak on board an alien spaceship, takes over it and head straight for Earth and a showdown with Tom and Kathryn.

 

[BirdInJetstream]

Yes she default bonded by the mere IDEA that the child existed.

Janeway actually saw the babies. It's gotta eat at her.

But: Didn't they say they can't remember the events after the transwarp flight?

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Yeah they can't remember the mating and life as lizards but the crew actually saw the babies. They knew what happened, they just didn't remember it as something they were part of I guess. I'd imagine the memory faded rapidly, like a dream or nightmare.

 

[Alpha Flyer]

Yeah they can't remember the mating and life as lizards but the crew actually saw the babies. They knew what happened, they just didn't remember it as something they were part of I guess. I'd imagine the memory faded rapidly, like a dream or nightmare.

Tom actually comments on his memories (of being "everywhere at once") slipping quickly ...

So maybe this whole let's-forget-about-the-bairns thing is an honest-to-goodness legitimate after-effect of Warp 10, like that as yet unidentified happy hormone that pours into women's bodies after they've given birth and allows them to forget the gory details? (Editorial Comment: If we didn't have that, no sane female would ever have more than one kid!!!).

And it offers another, perfectly sound explanation -- apart from lousy writing -- for why P and J don't seem to have abandonment issues.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Yes.

But I believe that later, as time passes and they reflect with enough distance from this unpleasant event, they will start to wonder.

 

[Alpha Flyer]

True -- but it will be an abstract wondering, I should think, not a gut-driven guilt wonder.

What I do grant, absolutely, is that the scientist in Janeway may want to run back there and see what she and Tom have produced, and that Tom -- who at this point still has Daddy issues to rival only B'Elanna's -- would want to up his old man by showing he Cares.

I think we can probably all agree on one thing here: If Demon (DEMON!!!) got a sequel that showed what happened to Voyager (sort of) offspring, why not this? It could have been quite cool ... But probably by then the "this is the worst episode ever" chants had started, and no one wanted to touch it anymore. Too bad.

Interestingly though, where there is a bit of an echo is in that whole "Investigations" arc. Did anyone else spot the "So Tom wants to redeem himself ...?" gleam in Janeway's eyes at the very end of Threshold? She sure gave him the opportunity just a few weeks later, with what she must have known was essentially a suicide mission ...