Table Manners...WTF?

[RoJoHen]

While at work today, we got into a random discussion about proper table etiquette -- using the correct utensil for certain types of food...proper place settings...keeping your elbows off the table -- and we all realized we have no idea WHY we do any of these things.

Why is a salad fork a salad fork? Why can't I use my regular dinner fork for both my salad AND my dinner?

Why can't I put my elbows on the table? Why is it considered rude? Do my elbows offend you? Are my elbows somehow dirtier than the rest of my forearm?

Who the hell invented this shit?

 

[iguana_tonante]

Most table manners were designed to avoid diners from shanking each other with the cutlery.

It works, most of the time.

 

[sojourner]

I always thought the elbows thing was to reduce accidents/knocking things over.

 

[trekkiedane]

This thread inspired me to look up similar things on Wikipedia:

In western countries, such as Australia and the United States, there are a variety of ways signify that one has completed their meal. Of these, most often used is placing the fork at the 5 o'clock position, with the knife either in the top right corner or together with the fork at the 5 o'clock position. If one is still eating their meal the fork is to be placed at the 8 o'clock position and the knife at the 4 o'clock. In European countries such as Germany, the placement of these utensils is at the 4 o’clock position. The placement of the utensils in this position also serves as an indicator to the waitress/waiter that your plate can be removed.

(Emphasis mine)

How do younger people (the ones that only know digital time) even learn this?

 

[RobertVA]

This thread inspired me to look up similar things on Wikipedia:

In western countries, such as Australia and the United States, there are a variety of ways signify that one has completed their meal. Of these, most often used is placing the fork at the 5 o'clock position, with the knife either in the top right corner or together with the fork at the 5 o'clock position. If one is still eating their meal the fork is to be placed at the 8 o'clock position and the knife at the 4 o'clock. In European countries such as Germany, the placement of these utensils is at the 4 o’clock position. The placement of the utensils in this position also serves as an indicator to the waitress/waiter that your plate can be removed.

(Emphasis mine)

How do younger people (the ones that only know digital time) even learn this?

I'm in my late fifties and that's news to me. I'll admit to some concern that I would find strangers at my table when I come back with seconds at buffets that collect the charges as customers enter, especially in the summer when I don't have a sweater or coat to leave on the back of the chair.

 

[Mr Silver]

Some of the utensil etiquette stuff comes from association and superstition. The Chinese won't leave chopsticks upright in the bowl as it apparently resembles an incense burning ritual known as "feeding the dead". The Japanese have even more death related superstitions when it comes to the placement of chopsticks.

 

[thestrangequark]

^Cultural difference are interesting. Before I went to Cairo when I was a kid I had to be taught not to use my left hand at the table, because in the Middle East the left hand is the bathroom hand.

As for Western manners, they are invaluable for fish out of water plot devices in film and TV, of course!

 

[trekkiedane]

^The Wikipedia article I mentioned also links to 2 films in which spies are found because they used utensils the American way

 

[iguana_tonante]

You should never stab people with a fish fork. That's uncouth. And vaguely insulting.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Isn't it actually considered good manners, in some cultures, to let loose with a humongous burp after eating?

In western countries, such as Australia and the United States, there are a variety of ways signify that one has completed their meal. Of these, most often used is placing the fork at the 5 o'clock position, with the knife either in the top right corner or together with the fork at the 5 o'clock position. If one is still eating their meal the fork is to be placed at the 8 o'clock position and the knife at the 4 o'clock. In European countries such as Germany, the placement of these utensils is at the 4 o’clock position. The placement of the utensils in this position also serves as an indicator to the waitress/waiter that your plate can be removed.

(Emphasis mine)

How do younger people (the ones that only know digital time) even learn this?

Beats the hell outta me...I prefer to let the waitperson know I've finished by showing them that my plate is, I dunno, EMPTY?!?

And none of that wibbly wobbly timey wimey stuff about utensil positions.

 

[Starbreaker]

Food is meant to be enjoyed. Prop your elbows on the table and dig in!

 

[The Borg Queen]

I always forget, are you supposed to slurp soup from the spoon or sip it quietly?

 

[Amaris]

I just splash face first into the bowl, and whatever makes it past my mustache is just good eatin'.

 

[thestrangequark]

I just splash face first into the bowl, and whatever makes it past my mustache is just good eatin'.

I am reminded of a whale filtering krill through its baleen.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I always forget, are you supposed to slurp soup from the spoon or sip it quietly?

SPOON?!?!?

 

[Maurice]

I always forget, are you supposed to slurp soup from the spoon or sip it quietly?

Snow White explains it at 2:00.

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cr-OEaocgOU[/yt]
​

That this scene was cut from the film explains why everyone has forgotten the rules.

 

[propita]

I always forget, are you supposed to slurp soup from the spoon or sip it quietly?

You raise the bowl and slurp directly from it!!

 

[B.J.]

I always forget, are you supposed to slurp soup from the spoon or sip it quietly?

You raise the bowl and slurp directly from it!!

With my kids, I'm sorely tempted to take away the spoons and give them a straw.

 

[Roshi]

^Cultural difference are interesting. Before I went to Cairo when I was a kid I had to be taught not to use my left hand at the table, because in the Middle East the left hand is the bathroom hand.

I know that! And then one day, I said fuck that and discovered there were a shiltload of stuff I could with my left hand!

 

[marillion]

I always forget, are you supposed to slurp soup from the spoon or sip it quietly?

I just make a "kissy face" pucker, lean over and suck the soup on in..

As I recall, the placement of flatware is based upon their use. I think, though I'm not sure, that it all comes the thought of having servants who would bring and remove courses from the table.

The smaller salad fork is on the outside left because it's used first. When you're done with your salad, you place your fork on the plate and it's removed. Then you're left with your dinner fork. The knife is placed on the oustide right, (always blade inward), for use to cut and or butter bread, followed by the spoon, which is, of course, used for soup. Generally, a spoon or fork is placed above the plate, and is to be used for dessert.

On a recent trip to DC, I went to eat at a neighborhood Ethiopean place.. I went along with a guy from Minnesota, who was admittedly not very adventurous when it came to eating. He was quite flummoxed when our meals dinner came on a large round of spongy bread for us to share. He couldn't get used to the idea of tearing off the bread an using it to scoop his food. LOL...