I'm very excited about this one, been a fun series of books so far.
Spoilers VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread
- Thread starter Sho
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In Kirsten we trust. If Janeway is coming back, then she'll most definitely handle it with the utmost care. No doubt
I think that having Janeway come back would be a nice and hopeful thing to have happen in a Star Trek universe that has become very dark. It would be nice to have a little bit of light shine in that darkness. I was never the biggest Janeway fan, but I find that I miss her and would welcome her back. Beyer is a master of VOY so far so I welcome her bringing back Katherine Janeway in this new book.
I don't get the idea that the Trek universe has become "very dark." Yes, some bad things have happened, but there are good things happening as well. The Cardassians and Ferengi are now solid Federation allies, the Romulan government is as benevolent and progressive as it's ever been, slipstream is opening new vistas of exploration, the DTI helped bring a major chapter of the Temporal Cold War to a close, and so on. While on a personal level, both Picard & Crusher and Riker & Troi are happily raising children, a number of formerly divided DS9 characters have been reunited, many VGR characters have overcome serious personal problems and are now in a better place emotionally, others are healing from the scars of the Borg Invasion and moving on with their careers and relationships, etc.
And it's not like previous Trek series were devoid of their darker moments. Just look at TOS. Kirk repeatedly suffered the deaths of family members and lovers, and was the survivor of an act of genocide in his childhood. Whole planetary populations in the billions were exterminated by Nomad, the Doomsday Machine, the neural parasites, etc. War broke out with the Klingons and was only stopped by the heavy hand of the Organians, and after that an ongoing cold war played out. Outposts were destroyed in border conflicts. Penal colonies fell under the control of madmen and torturers. Miners unknowingly slaughtered thousands of unborn alien children. Enterprise crewmembers died by the handful, and whole starship crews were exterminated on multiple occasions.
And yet, despite all of that violence and death and grief, TOS is considered an optimistic show. So why this perception that there's nothing positive happening in the books today?
And it's not like previous Trek series were devoid of their darker moments. Just look at TOS. Kirk repeatedly suffered the deaths of family members and lovers, and was the survivor of an act of genocide in his childhood. Whole planetary populations in the billions were exterminated by Nomad, the Doomsday Machine, the neural parasites, etc. War broke out with the Klingons and was only stopped by the heavy hand of the Organians, and after that an ongoing cold war played out. Outposts were destroyed in border conflicts. Penal colonies fell under the control of madmen and torturers. Miners unknowingly slaughtered thousands of unborn alien children. Enterprise crewmembers died by the handful, and whole starship crews were exterminated on multiple occasions.
And yet, despite all of that violence and death and grief, TOS is considered an optimistic show. So why this perception that there's nothing positive happening in the books today?
Drago-Kazov
Fleet Captain
I only read Full Circle. primarily for all that good klingon stuff.
Does he make Harry Kim more charismatic and a leader type like shown in Nightingale or he is still the pathethic asexual idiot we all know?
Drago-Kazov
Fleet Captain
Why not just get rid of him? Kim has as much charisma a overused replicator. Get someone interesting in his place like Miles O'Brien, Benjamin Maxwell or some former Equinox people.
Harry is now the second officer/tactical/security chief, and he's not whining about Libby anymore. Tom and him have had a few rough patches, but things are getting better. HE's got a girlfriend now. The new cheif engineer. I fully believe that Kirsten has a plan for him. People hated Chakotay before Kirsten got her hands on him...and look at how much better he is now 
Drago-Kazov
Fleet Captain
Peopl hatetd Chakotay? They might had disliked or were bored by him. hated him seems strong. Neeelix might had been hated, but Chakotay...
I really hope she's not back. Not because characters should stay dead(still hoping for a data return!), but simply because I can't stand the character. Some of the things she did in the series, and particularly in Endgame pretty much made me unable to stomach anything involving her. I still kept away following Before Dishonour simply because most of the crew is so incredibly bland & boring, but Beyer's books got me into it again, although mainly due to her own characters.
Hopefully even if she does return she's off to the alpha quadrant as soon as, or dies again(I'd pay to see that...again!).
Hopefully even if she does return she's off to the alpha quadrant as soon as, or dies again(I'd pay to see that...again!).
Bringing Janeway back just to have her die again would be stupid. And would be playing with the minds of the fans that do enjoy her time on Voyager. If the end result in bringing her back is to die again then I say just leave her dead. Janeway was the only female Star Trek captain to lead a series. Out of all 5 of the captains Janeway is the only one to have been mishandled and what others says is true. Like Nick Meyer said, of course you can kill Spock as long as you do it well. Janeway's death was not handled well.
I have to say I've read both Full Circle and Unworthy but haven't read Children Of The Storm. I've been reading Trek novels for more than 20 years and I have to say that this era of novels has produced two of my favorites, DTI: Watching The Clock and Full Circle. I've read them over and over and never get bored in reading them. I'm hoping that Eternal Tide will be just as good and have faith it will.
I have to say I've read both Full Circle and Unworthy but haven't read Children Of The Storm. I've been reading Trek novels for more than 20 years and I have to say that this era of novels has produced two of my favorites, DTI: Watching The Clock and Full Circle. I've read them over and over and never get bored in reading them. I'm hoping that Eternal Tide will be just as good and have faith it will.
...that was a joke
Yeah, Kate Mulgrew was a brilliant casting choice but sadly the series runners/writers really messed the character around rather a lot.
Children of the Storm is by far the best of the three for my money.
So... I just imagined all those people who've been complaining for the past 18 years that Kirk's death wasn't handled well? And that's a canonical death.
My theory is that Chakotay gets Eden to wear a Janeway mask while they are having sexual congress.
Well, you don't have to narrow it to death specifically. Search through the annals of fan and professional criticism and you'll find many complaints about Trek captains being mishandled at various times. There are plenty of people out there who think Kirk was mishandled in TMP or much of the third season of TOS, or that Picard was mishandled in NEM or in the novel Ship of the Line. I think Kirk was mishandled in TUC. Many think Archer was mishandled in season 3. Many think Sisko was mishandled in Rough Beasts of Empire, though others have reconsidered upon reading the subsequent duology.
So to claim that Janeway is the only captain who ever got handled badly, and that it must therefore be because she's a woman, is simply untrue. Don't get me wrong, there's plenty of sexism in the world that legitimately needs to be acknowledged and fought (as a certain not-so-honorable Mr. Akin of Missouri has so vividly demonstrated in recent days), but that's exactly why there's no sense inventing imaginary charges of sexism and wasting energy on the wrong battles. Male Trek captains have not been immune from mishandling either.
So to claim that Janeway is the only captain who ever got handled badly, and that it must therefore be because she's a woman, is simply untrue. Don't get me wrong, there's plenty of sexism in the world that legitimately needs to be acknowledged and fought (as a certain not-so-honorable Mr. Akin of Missouri has so vividly demonstrated in recent days), but that's exactly why there's no sense inventing imaginary charges of sexism and wasting energy on the wrong battles. Male Trek captains have not been immune from mishandling either.
The only reason I might be interested in seeing Janeway come back is to see what kind of an effect it has on her and the other characters. There's been a lot of developments since she did, so it could be interesting to see what kind of an effect her return has on those developments.
No it wasn't. Ron Moore, one of the writers, said so himself. Kirk's role in Generations was nothing more than a glorified cameo. He was only in the movie to have a bridge to the original series and nothing more. The actor himself hated it so much that he wrote an entire series reviving the Kirk character and while I know those don't fit into the novelverse continuity I feel that the books about Kirk's revival undid that. I'm hoping that Eternal Tide can do the same thing for Janeway. Beyer has the talent to do it. Even your book Watching The Clock made Janeway's death have more meaning, none of the uptime governments would have existed without her actions. DTI:WTC and Full Circle took away from of the sting of her death in Before Dishonor.
I guess I should have said that Captain Janeway hasn't been treated as well as she could have been in the novelverse as the other male captains have. Out of three female captains, Janeway, Kira and Dax, the only one still around now and in a leadership position is Dax. Kirk came back, Sisko came back, Picard never left and neither did Archer. Why is it that only the female leads are treated that way? I miss Kira being in command of the station as much as I miss Janeway being alive. It seems to me that the message to young women out there is you can achieve your dreams and accomplish much, but the men are the one's who get to fulfill those dreams until the end. I'm not a woman but I still see that there is a discrepancy there.
I don't blame any of the writers in any way. The last decade has been the best Treklit has ever been. But that's because the writers have been extremely talented. It's the editors who make goofy decisions like fast forward DS9 and having Janeway end up with the Q.
*I will say having Ro in command of DS9 now is cool. Knowing the back story of how Kira was meant to be Ro in DS9's creation is a bit of symmetry I like.
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