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Chick-fil-A digging themselves a hole

Someone pleeeeeeease trim this issue down for me...

Are gay staff (or clients) discriminated by this company in anyway? No or Yes?

Here's a link to help answer that question.

http://equalitymatters.org/factcheck/201103220004

Scroll down a bit more than halfway and look at the section "Winshape's Traditional Marriage Activities."

Aside from the fact that Chick-Fil-A probably doesn't discriminate against gays any more than they do against single people, non-Christians, or people with nose-rings, the equality matters fact-check foo is weak and self-serving. Winshape only donates some of their money to those charities (lots of it goes to orphanages and such), and those charities only address traditional-marriage as one of many issues they work on, and gay-marriage is only one of many aspects of their traditional marriage support.

Remember all the screaming about wives being told to be subservient to their husbands? That's part of traditional marriage, yet the Chick-Fil-A protest is pretending that "traditional marriage" spending is soley aimed at gays. They spend even more on anti-abortion efforts under "family values", which the activists imply is aimed at gays, and that all the anti-divorce "marriage counselling" programs are actually about oppressing gays. In the sloppy funding claims, a woman's control over her womb got misrepresented as something that's oppressing two gay men.

They're claiming Chick-Fil-A spends millions to oppress gays, when in fact only a tiny percentage of the money Chick-Fil-A's Winshape foundation gives to charities is going to anti-gay marriage efforts. Based on how much Focus on the Family spend on Proposition 8, less than one percent of Chick-Fil-A's charitable contributions is going to anti-gay causes, not 100% as is implied. Anti CFA activists are counting all that as spending against gay-marriage.

Not everything is about gays, and the activists shouldn't have been incorrectly claiming that it is, misinforming and misleading millions of gays into thinking a chicken sandwich shop is the biggest spender opposing them. It's a trivial one. Some Dallas housewife is five times worse, as is some dude at Dell. California girls named Amy are six times worse. Bruce in Utah is a hundred times worse.

This wildly misleading information has caused gays to expend all their efforts in a swamp chasing after an 85-year old coot who's probably going to die soon anyway, leaving the countryside to be ravaged by vastly more numerous hordes who are wandering around eating all the chickens.

It's quite clear from the section there that gays are not wanted in leadership positions.

And how has that possibly been improved by this protest? This issue is now so politicized, and the vitriol from the gay community so intense, that Chick-Fil-A would be insane to accept a new gay into a leadership position without an FBI, DIA, and NSA background check and bugs on their phones, their car, their house, and PI's shadowing their movements. Israel will be accepting Palestinian F-16 pilots into the IAF before Chick-Fil-A could trust a new gay operator not to poison the food or shoot all their bigoted customers, because new gay applicants are very, very likely to be applying with very bad intentions towards Chick-Fil-A.

That's what happens when requests and demands to join the team get drowned out by calls to destroy the team, which is why you don't ever want to over-reach like the mayors did when the goal is inclusion.

And the stupidest part is that the bad optics didn't come from gays. The mayors who botched the issue weren't gay, they were desperately trying to appear gay-friendly to boost their own personal approval. The idiot in the drive-thru who berated the sweet Chick-Fil-A girl in a Youtube video that went viral made the point that "I don't have any gay in me," pretty much implying that he categorized it as something on par with leprosy or ebola, but thought he could exploit their issue to sanctimoniously aggrandize himself. With friends like that, who needs enemies?
 
Can i ask whether they are actually any good? Its just we dont have it here in the UK. It is it a fast-food joint?

Yes, it is a fast-food joint. I've only had Chick-fil-A a few times, mostly at my local shopping mall, and speaking for myself, I personally found the food to be average fast-food fare... I didn't think it was bad, nor did I think it was great... it was just good for what it was... a fast-food chicken sandwich and fries.
 
The Mayors of Chicago, Boston and San Fransisco as piped in saying that Chick-Fil-A would have a hard time getting business permits in their cities henceforth.

I would think that the homosexual community, as oppressed as they have been in the past, would be the first to speak up for freedom of speech. Part of that people advocating causes you don't agree with. Promoting traditional marriage isn't "hate" in my opinion, it's an arguement. There really is a double standard on society today. If this was a Muslim business no one would have dared said a thing for example.

Can anyone produce a single shred of proof that the business has discriminated against any of their customers or employees because of their sexual orientation? The media hasn't yet. What the owner does with his own money is his business. That is part of freedom. I bet even you are entitled to spend your money how you want or not to in this case.

But elected officials trying to hinder a business just because of their opinion on the definition of marriage? Lest we all forget this was a position that our President held just three months ago. Where's it stop? Does construction worker who expresses a liberal view get fired if there's a conservative mayor? Does that conservative contractor get fired if that mayor loses the election next November? It's sets a scary precident if this is allowed.

I personally think the government should stay out of the issue of marriage altogether. It's an affair of the religions and/or the individuals involved. Our constitution does advocate seperation of church and state for example. This includes all the tax benefits too, as I'm in favor of a flat tax, but with political reality as it is, if you're going to hand out tax deductions to hetrosexual couples, homosexual couples should be entitled to same deductions.
 
Someone pleeeeeeease trim this issue down for me...

Are gay staff (or clients) discriminated by this company in anyway? No or Yes?

Here's a link to help answer that question.

http://equalitymatters.org/factcheck/201103220004

Scroll down a bit more than halfway and look at the section "Winshape's Traditional Marriage Activities."

Aside from the fact that Chick-Fil-A probably doesn't
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Remember all the screaming about
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They're claiming Chick-Fil-A spends millions to
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Not everything is about gays, and
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.

This wildly misleading information has caused
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.

It's quite clear from the section there that gays are not wanted in leadership positions.

And how has that possibly been improved by
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.

That's what happens when
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.

And the stupidest part is that the bad optics didn't come from
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I still don't think much of the act. When you can come up with a succinct and non-evasive response to anything anyone says, I'll pay more attention. Keep up the "wall of non sequitur" tactics and I'll continue to treat your posts as the obfuscatory noise they are.
 
A bunch of incoherant warblgarbl...
I don't know why you keep putting up that "$11,000" amount. It's clearly been accurately reported by numerous sources that it's OVER $2,000,000.00 (Some reports say closer to $5,000,000.00, but we'll go with the lower amount for now).

And if you think this is only a matter of "Free Speech" (and remember, Free Speech doesn't mean free from the consequences of your free speech):

Groups that Chick-Fil-A donates money to (over $2,000,000.00 total, NOT $11,000.00), and their agendas (originally posted by another BBS member, but highlighted by me):

Focus on the Family
The group supports the teaching of what it considers to be traditional family values. It advocates school sponsored prayer and supports corporal punishment. It strongly opposes LGBT rights, abortion, pornography, legalized gambling, and pre-marital and extramarital sexual activity.


Family Research Council
It advocates against LGBT rights, abortion, divorce, embryonic stem-cell research, the theory that global warming is the result of human activity, and pornography.

FRC is listed as a Hate Group by the Southern Poverty Law Center. The Family Research Council's Senior Researcher for Policy Studies Peter Sprigg was criticized when he, in his official capacity as a fellow of the FRC, stated that gay behavior should be outlawed and that "criminal sanctions against homosexual behavior" should be enforced.


Eagle Forum
Led by noted anti-feminist Phyllis Schlafly, the Eagle Forum is notorious for it's opposition to equal rights for women and it's advocacy for the role of women in society as "full-time homemakers." Eagle Forum is also part of the anti-vaccination movement.

So, not only do they fund organizations that ACTIVELY WORK TO PERSECUTE AND LIMIT CIVIL RIGHTS OF GAY AMERICAN CITIZENS, they fund organizations that ACTIVELY OPPOSE WOMEN'S RIGHTS. And they fund organizations that OPPOSE VACCINATIONS for children.

Care to give any REAL reason (beyond bigotry and misogyny) why any intelligent person should NOT be against a corporation that spends so much to actively put down large segments of the population?
 
I don't know how you can read the link I provided, look at the Facebook chat displayed there, and tell me with a straight face that Chick-fil-A doesn't discriminate against gay employees.

Read it again. Try to comprehend it this time. And then never come back in this thread claiming that they don't discriminate against employees.
 
I still don't think much of the act. When you can come up with a succinct and non-evasive response to anything anyone says, I'll pay more attention. Keep up the "wall of non sequitur" tactics and I'll continue to treat your posts as the obfuscatory noise they are.

Gee, and here I've been thinking that the protesters are acting like they've got their fingers stuck in their ears going "La la la - I can't hear your arguments that what I'm doing is self-defeating." Well hey, they do!

Here's an example.

Mark Segal, the publisher of Philadelphia Gay News, told the Huffington Post that he thought kissing in front of Chick-fil-A restaurants is "probably the worst form of demonstration the LGBT community could possibly use" because it won't foster communication between the two sides.

"It plays right into the fears of the right wing and what they've always thought: We just want to have sex whenever we can!" he said.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...+HP/Politics+(Politics+on+The+Huffington+Post)

Nobody listened to him, either. Instead the activists went ahead with a Kiss-In planned months ago by a 24-year old girl from Texas, whose own partner wasn't going to take part in it. She expected 15,000 peole to show up.

Here comes some more math.

There are over 1,600 franchise locations. 15,000 kissers works out to about 9 protesters per Chick-Fil-A, which is four couples. They won't all show up at the same time, just on the same day. Chick-Fil-A is open from breakfast till late evening. At an average location, a gay couple protesting wouldn't be very likely to encounter another gay couple protesting at the same time.

Numbers and planning are always important. There are gobs of fantastically qualified gay and lesbian CEOs in their 40's and 50's who could coordinate an invasion of the Asian mainland in their sleep, and who do run major advertising, PR, and marketing firms. Put one of them in charge of planning, not a 24-year old posting on Twitter or Facebook.

When your team is failing so badly that the opposing fans are screaming coaching advice at you, explaining what you're doing wrong and how to improve your players' performance, sheerly at the frustration of watching an embarassing walk-over, it's time to fire your coach, your offensive and defensive coordinators, and the manager and have a rebuilding year.
 
The Mayors of Chicago, Boston and San Fransisco as piped in saying that Chick-Fil-A would have a hard time getting business permits in their cities henceforth.

Which I think is wrong.

I would think that the homosexual community, as oppressed as they have been in the past, would be the first to speak up for freedom of speech.

This isn't an issue of Freedom of Speech. Cathy can say whatever he wants. The LGBT community ALSO gets to say what they want, like, "he's an asshole for giving to these hate groups."

Freedom of Speech doesn't mean freedom from consequence (except by the government.)

Part of that people advocating causes you don't agree with. Promoting traditional marriage isn't "hate" in my opinion, it's an arguement. There really is a double standard on society today. If this was a Muslim business no one would have dared said a thing for example.

And I think your opinion is wrong. When you are preventing people from getting civil rights... that's wrong. That's hateful.

As far as the Muslim example. Do you remember everyone (on the Right) being up in arms about a Mosque being put in "at ground zero?" A HOUSE OF WORSHIP was condemned by a whole swath of the population.

Can anyone produce a single shred of proof that the business has discriminated against any of their customers or employees because of their sexual orientation? The media hasn't yet. What the owner does with his own money is his business. That is part of freedom. I bet even you are entitled to spend your money how you want or not to in this case.

No one has claimed that customers are being discriminated against. The complaint is taking corporate profits to donate to groups that are actively seeking to take civil rights away from other Americans. OTHER AMERICANS.

He is free to spend his money as he chooses. As I am FREE to not give him any of mine. As I am free to ask everyone else to not do the same thing.

THAT'S also freedom.

But elected officials trying to hinder a business just because of their opinion on the definition of marriage? Lest we all forget this was a position that our President held just three months ago. Where's it stop? Does construction worker who expresses a liberal view get fired if there's a conservative mayor? Does that conservative contractor get fired if that mayor loses the election next November? It's sets a scary precident if this is allowed.

Agreed.

I personally think the government should stay out of the issue of marriage altogether.

AGREED. EVERYONE... gay or straight should get civil unions--with the same protections. Let marriage be decided by whatever Church you belong to. Don't like it, you are free to join another Church.

But, again, EVERYONE would be equal, gay or straight, the same civil union offered at City Hall.

It's an affair of the religions and/or the individuals involved. Our constitution does advocate seperation of church and state for example. This includes all the tax benefits too, as I'm in favor of a flat tax, but with political reality as it is, if you're going to hand out tax deductions to hetrosexual couples, homosexual couples should be entitled to same deductions.

Agreed.
 
Gay kissers in front of Chick-fil-A won't accomplish a thing. What needs to be done is exposing the support Chick-fil-A has given to anti-gay hate groups, and the discrimination they practice towards employees. Even in this thread, where supposedly people are paying attention, some continue to deny the latter.

With the media continuing to spin this as a "free speech" issue, it's doubly hard to convince the average person of Chick-fil-A's support of hate groups.
 
Can i ask whether they are actually any good? Its just we dont have it here in the UK. It is it a fast-food joint?

Yes, it is a fast-food joint. I've only had Chick-fil-A a few times, mostly at my local shopping mall, and speaking for myself, I personally found the food to be average fast-food fare... I didn't think it was bad, nor did I think it was great... it was just good for what it was... a fast-food chicken sandwich and fries.

So, its pretty unhealthy food? Lots of transfats?
 
A bunch of incoherant warblgarbl...
I don't know why you keep putting up that "$11,000" amount. It's clearly been accurately reported by numerous sources that it's OVER $2,000,000.00 (Some reports say closer to $5,000,000.00, but we'll go with the lower amount for now).

And if you think this is only a matter of "Free Speech" (and remember, Free Speech doesn't mean free from the consequences of your free speech):

Groups that Chick-Fil-A donates money to (over $2,000,000.00 total, NOT $11,000.00), and their agendas (originally posted by another BBS member, but highlighted by me):

Take a deep breath. This is math and logic. Chick-Fil-A donated $2,000,000 dollars to the groups you listed, which in turn devote about 1% of that money to gay issues.

You can't claim that the other 99% of that money going to orphans, divorce counselling, anti-pornography, gambling, climate change or abortion issues is being spent on you.

Aside from that, if Chick-Fil-A just spent $2 million on all their charities, in total, over the years, and Focus on the Family alone runs on a $100 million dollar annual budget, where is all that other money coming from? Someone gave a hundred and you're chasing after a pair of quarters. Out of that $100 million, Focus on the Family spent far less than 1% opposing gay marriage. That's why I said Chick-Fil-A only ended up spending about $11,000 opposing gay marriage. Their $2 million was scattered across a wide variety of causes, including orphans.

Far more anti gay marriage money was donated by people who listed their workplace as the government. They donated your tax money, to oppress you!
 
Aside from the fact that Chick-Fil-A probably doesn't discriminate against gays any more than they do against single people, non-Christians, or people with nose-rings, the equality matters fact-check foo is weak and self-serving.

The problem is a combination of two things.

They hire married people.

They prevent gay people from getting married to a partner of their choice.

So their other actions increase the likelihood of discrimination against gays, while a generic preference for marriage would not perpetuate additional problems.
 
A bunch of incoherant warblgarbl...
I don't know why you keep putting up that "$11,000" amount. It's clearly been accurately reported by numerous sources that it's OVER $2,000,000.00 (Some reports say closer to $5,000,000.00, but we'll go with the lower amount for now).

And if you think this is only a matter of "Free Speech" (and remember, Free Speech doesn't mean free from the consequences of your free speech):

Groups that Chick-Fil-A donates money to (over $2,000,000.00 total, NOT $11,000.00), and their agendas (originally posted by another BBS member, but highlighted by me):

Take a deep breath. This is math and logic. Chick-Fil-A donated $2,000,000 dollars to the groups you listed, which in turn devote about 1% of that money to gay issues.

You can't claim that the other 99% of that money going to orphans, divorce counselling, anti-pornography, gambling, climate change or abortion issues is being spent on you.

Aside from that, if Chick-Fil-A just spent $2 million on all their charities, in total, over the years, and Focus on the Family alone runs on a $100 million dollar annual budget, where is all that other money coming from? Someone gave a hundred and you're chasing after a pair of quarters. Out of that $100 million, Focus on the Family spent far less than 1% opposing gay marriage. That's why I said Chick-Fil-A only ended up spending about $11,000 opposing gay marriage. Their $2 million was scattered across a wide variety of causes, including orphans.

Far more anti gay marriage money was donated by people who listed their workplace as the government. They donated your tax money, to oppress you!
Well, considering I'm straight and have been married to the same woman for 30 years last month, you STILL don't know what the hell you're talking about.

And, you're ignoring the fact that paying to fight against women's rights, and fighting to deny climate change, and fighting to stop vaccination of children are just as heinous, bigoted, mysogynistic, non-scientific and just plain pigheaded and wrong as fighting against civil rights for homosexuals.
 
Aside from the fact that Chick-Fil-A probably doesn't discriminate against gays any more than they do against single people, non-Christians, or people with nose-rings, the equality matters fact-check foo is weak and self-serving.

The problem is a combination of two things.

They hire married people.

They prevent gay people from getting married to a partner of their choice.

I didn't realize we'd put a chicken sandwich franchise in charge of marriage laws. I though we still elected legislators. I must've missed that.

And nobody has a right to marry the partner of their choice. If they did I'd be suing Charlize Theron for $5 million for infringing on my right to marry her.

Marriage is an odd issue. It's not an individual right, it somehow forms only for groups larger than one (which is actually rather unusual compared to most of what we recognize as a right) and may be more of custom than a right, because if it was a right there wouldn't be so many rules limiting it, to the extent that much of the population isn't even available on the market. Too young, already married, close family member, etc. We used to consider one of the participants to become property, as it wasn't a union of equals, but of opposites.
 
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Well, considering I'm straight and have been married to the same woman for 30 years last month, you STILL don't know what the hell you're talking about.

Oops. It gets hard to keep track of everybody.

And, you're ignoring the fact that paying to fight against women's rights, and fighting to deny climate change, and fighting to stop vaccination of children are just as heinous, bigoted, mysogynistic, non-scientific and just plain pigheaded and wrong as fighting against civil rights for homosexuals.

And isn't fighting against women's rights (in terms of abortion), fighting for babies rights? Wouldn't spending the other way let you scream at Chick-Fil-A is supporting baby killers? When you define everything you don't like as "hate" they can't win, because even if they adopted positions that agree with all of yours, they'd be supporting someone else's opinion of hate.

Do you have any idea what a conservative would think of corporate donations to the Tides foundation or gobs of other liberal charities? What about all the companies that donate to environmental groups that all but banned DDT in Africa, directly killing tens of millions of black babies? What about donations to the Negro College Fund, which discriminates against whites?! Should we run around denouncing all those corporations as evil haters?

Do you think it's a little convenient that every charity who disagrees with you is a hater on every issue, but by pure coincindence, none of the groups you support are a hater on any issue, and yet so many people are convinced it's largely the opposite?

Your tax money goes directly toward foreign aid to Muslim nations that actively jail or execute homosexuals, about a billion times more money that Chick-Fil-A spent. Barack Obama's anti-drilling plan, which has left oil prices about twice as high as they were under Bush despite a sharp decrease in demand due to the recession, is supporting and enriching the Iranians, the Saudi Arabians, and all the other contries that are not just prohibiting gays from getting married, but are cutting their heads off. The IRS doesn't give you a choice about supporting the hate.

If you're going to get worked up over something, at least make it something big.
 
Gturner, ladies and gentlemen. As long as there's a bigger outrage about something somewhere, don't bother complaining about this one.
 
*I sit back and munch down hard on the popcorn*

Though I might just add that Ttake out the term gay from the debate. Consider perhaps if he'd expressed the same opinion about race or religion. Politicians and the like would of vehemently frowned upon such a statement. Its just something to think about....
 
Well, considering I'm straight and have been married to the same woman for 30 years last month, you STILL don't know what the hell you're talking about.

Oops. It gets hard to keep track of everybody.

And, you're ignoring the fact that paying to fight against women's rights, and fighting to deny climate change, and fighting to stop vaccination of children are just as heinous, bigoted, mysogynistic, non-scientific and just plain pigheaded and wrong as fighting against civil rights for homosexuals.
And isn't fighting against women's rights (in terms of abortion), fighting for babies rights? Wouldn't spending the other way let you scream at Chick-Fil-A is supporting baby killers?
Which part of this...
Eagle Forum
Led by noted anti-feminist Phyllis Schlafly, the Eagle Forum is notorious for it's opposition to equal rights for women and it's advocacy for the role of women in society as "full-time homemakers." Eagle Forum is also part of the anti-vaccination movement.
...says anything about abortion? The part about making women full-time homemakers? And how about that anti-vaccination advocacy, huh?

Or how about...
Family Research Council
It advocates against LGBT rights,abortion,divorce, embryonic stem-cell research, the theory that global warming is the result of human activity, and pornography.
...the bolded items have nothing to do with just gays, they are advocating against basic SCIENCE.

Or how about...
Focus on the Family
The group supports the teaching of what it considers to be traditional family values. It advocates school sponsored prayer and supports corporal punishment. It strongly opposes LGBT rights, abortion, pornography, legalized gambling, and pre-marital and extramarital sexual activity.
...anything of those highlighted things about gays? Or is it just about sticking ignorant, biased noses into areas they don't belong in?
 
I didn't realize we'd put a chicken sandwich franchise in charge of marriage laws. I though we still elected legislators. I must've missed that.

I refuse to believe that you are incapable of making the inferences necessary to understand my post. Re-read it and come back to me when you get it.
 
I didn't realize we'd put a chicken sandwich franchise in charge of marriage laws. I though we still elected legislators. I must've missed that.

I refuse to believe that you are incapable of making the inferences necessary to understand my post. Re-read it and come back to me when you get it.
I doubt he will, because he keeps wriggling his way around answering my posts straight as well.
 
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