The Maquis or the Federation?

[los2188]

I'm curious about the Maquis. Even after all these many years of the TNG era Trek, I still don't have a yay or nay opinion on whether I would side with the Maquis or Federation. I still don't have a crystal clear understanding along with the whys and why nots of the Maquis. Whom would you side with? The Maquis, or the Federation?? Or maybe even Cadassians? When I ask this question, please assume that you're human and not Bjorn or Cardassian or some other such humanoid species.

 

[R. Star]

You could make a moral arguement about the merits of both sides, which is what made it such a compelling story arc. These weren't your generic bad guys of the week. Sure they were the antagonists, but you can't help but sympathize with them and the poor situation they were dealt.

As for your question, me personally? If I lived in those colonies, I probably would join up. Otherwise if I lived elsewhere in the Federation, I'd probably speak up for them sympatheticly, but draw the line there. Definitely wouldn't pull an Eddington.

 

[DonIago]

Ditto, except that if I'd lived in those colonies I would have relocated deeper into Federation space.

 

[sonak]

the Federation.


Peace trumps some random pieces of land.


And in the 24th century, where your "home" is just doesn't really matter. The UFP is a utopia where all your basic needs are provided for and you can work as whatever you want.

It's not like now where relocation might mean having to find a new job, a new house, etc.



The Maquis "cause" was just silly.

 

[Mage]

the Federation.


Peace trumps some random pieces of land.


And in the 24th century, where your "home" is just doesn't really matter. The UFP is a utopia where all your basic needs are provided for and you can work as whatever you want.

It's not like now where relocation might mean having to find a new job, a new house, etc.



The Maquis "cause" was just silly.

Silly? These people had made lives for themselves there. If you were suddenly told that the home you lived in was going to be taken from you, the home where you are happy and want to spend your life, you don't just say 'well that's just super, where do I sign up?'. Even if your government was going to pay for a new house, give you a job and feed you. You are happy where you are.

The Maquis were right in there cause. The Federation had no right to just give away those colonies without atleast asking what the people who life there think about it. You talk about Utopia (and as Sisko said, only the coreworlds have real Utopia, the colonies still have to struggle to maintain themselves). In a Utopian society, everybody matters. No one is forced into doing anything they don't want. So by forcing to settlers into abandoning their homes, the Federation is basicly showing their true colors.

Perhaps the attitude of doing what you are told works for Starfleet officers, but a civilian will struggle with that sort of forced relocation. Hell, even Starfleet officers saw how wrong it was and decided to join up.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

the Federation.


Peace trumps some random pieces of land.


And in the 24th century, where your "home" is just doesn't really matter. The UFP is a utopia where all your basic needs are provided for and you can work as whatever you want.

It's not like now where relocation might mean having to find a new job, a new house, etc.



The Maquis "cause" was just silly.

Wasn't the whole Marquis/Cardassian conflict none of the Federation's business though. I mean last I hear on the subject they weren't federation citizens any more.

Plus it was a crappy treaty anyway.

 

[Timo]

You are happy where you are.

And that's what you go to a war over, and get thousands killed? Shame on you!

The proper response is to write a scathing letter in the local newspaper, or go to the pub, get drunk and complain to your pint until it appears to start listening. Not to start shooting at people.

I mean last I hear on the subject they weren't federation citizens any more.

That never happened. In "Journey's End", a bunch of colonists who definitely weren't Maquis abandoned their UFP citizenship and were never heard of again. In the remaining episodes describing the colonists at the Cardassian border, a bunch of colonists started shooting at stuff but never had the guts to stop being UFP citizens and reaping the benefits; when this murderous scum was finally wiped out in "Blaze of Glory", Eddington expressed anguish that they had been on the verge of declaring independence from the UFP, but never got around to it.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Use of Time]

I'll agree that the treaty itself was incredibly inconsiderate of the border worlds.

That being said The Maquis seemed to want their cake and eat it too. They weren't really good about meeting the Federation halfway. Like Timo said they never declared independence and began slipping further into the category of terrorists. This forced the Federation's hand in siding against them. They did themselves no favors there.

Also, if I were a parent and had kids on those colonies, I would have relocated without question. If we started getting harassed by Cardassians then I would have definitely drawn the line there. It just wouldn't have been worth it to me.

 

[starburst]

This isnt the same thing (well you would hope not) but what would you do if you lived near the border with another country, lets say for example Mexico or Canada for some of you guys who live in the States, and for whatever reason your Government made some deal which now mean your home was part of the other countries territory...

Would you be happy about that in the slightest?

 

[R. Star]

How did that peace treaty turn out again? Let's see during the armistice of it the Cardassians destroyed a Federation colony and tried blaming it on Bajor, during the negotitations of said peace treaty they tried siezing Minos Korva, after it was signed they repeatedly attacked Federation targets when expedient, and eventually joined the Dominion and instigated the largest war in Federation history.

Yup, that peace treaty with Cardassia sure worked out good.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The Maquis were right in there cause. The Federation had no right to just give away those colonies without atleast asking what the people who life there think about it.

Actually, the Federation had every right.

And if you recall from the TNG episode which established the Maquis as a concept, the colonists WERE asked about it - and it was their bloody idea to stay in the DMZ in the first place! They knew full well that they would be living under Cardassian rule. They insisted on it!

 

[starburst]

But would you want to give up your home, I mean some of us might be willing to even if begrudgingly, but some who have spent years building a life on those colonies would be far less likely to want to up sticks and move (and going back to my analogy they had every reason to, the Cardassians are hardly Canadian or Mexican!)

 

[R. Star]

When you call them colonies, I get the impression most people think they just landed down there yesterday. That's not really the case. They had been there for at least one generation as Voyager mentions some of their Maquis having been born in what is the DMZ.

Anyone there would have every right to be angry to have their home ceded to an aggressive expansionalist empire in the attempt of appeasement when their behavior had already showed they were not at all interested in peace.

 

[Timo]

The colonists are quite free to feel "angry" or "not happy" or whatever about the situation. If they decide to start an armed rebellion over it, their homes deserve to burn brightly.

What happened to sense of proportion? In the Trek universe, these people belong to a mental hospital. In our universe, they would be jailed for years, and even if their territories were later reacquired by their native country, the lunatics who had served their sentences would hopefully be prevented from trying to benefit from their crimes by banning them from ever getting that land back.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[R. Star]

The colonists are quite free to feel "angry" or "not happy" or whatever about the situation. If they decide to start an armed rebellion over it, their homes deserve to burn brightly.

What happened to sense of proportion? In the Trek universe, these people belong to a mental hospital. In our universe, they would be jailed for years, and even if their territories were later reacquired by their native country, the lunatics who had served their sentences would hopefully be prevented from trying to benefit from their crimes by banning them from ever getting that land back.

Timo Saloniemi

Yeah you're right. They should just politely ask the Cardassians not to rape their women, poison their replicators, beat and shoot them for fun.

 

[Timo]

No, they should walk away and not be silly. If they choose to be silly, they deserve the above, and more.

Really, the whole idea of "making a stand" for "rights" at the above cost is so disgusting that it boggles the mind that anybody could find this sorry lot sympathetic in any sense. The violence is all their own choosing, the victimization their own doing. All because they prefer to be "happy" on a lawn they themselves planted!

Timo Saloniemi

 

[R. Star]

No, they should walk away and not be silly. If they choose to be silly, they deserve the above, and more.

Really, the whole idea of "making a stand" for "rights" at the above cost is so disgusting that it boggles the mind that anybody could find this sorry lot sympathetic in any sense. The violence is all their own choosing, the victimization their own doing. All because they prefer to be "happy" on a lawn they themselves planted!

Timo Saloniemi

That's your skewed opinion. Personally I find it more repugant you're saying people deserve to die and be brutalized because they stand up for themselves when their own government gave away their homes to appease a hostile power that wasn't interested at all in peace.

I'm sure the Cardassian Central Command agrees with that sentiment though, so if that's what you're going for good job there.

 

[DonIago]

As I said in another thread, I think it would have been the height of entertaining irony if the colonists had blocked the treaty, a new Cardassian war had ensued, and the colonies had consequently been glassed by the Cardassians.

The very formation of the Maquis IMO shows very little consideration for the possible consequences of their actions, especially when they began openly targeting military vessels.

 

[sonak]

the Federation.


Peace trumps some random pieces of land.


And in the 24th century, where your "home" is just doesn't really matter. The UFP is a utopia where all your basic needs are provided for and you can work as whatever you want.

It's not like now where relocation might mean having to find a new job, a new house, etc.



The Maquis "cause" was just silly.

Silly? These people had made lives for themselves there. If you were suddenly told that the home you lived in was going to be taken from you, the home where you are happy and want to spend your life, you don't just say 'well that's just super, where do I sign up?'. Even if your government was going to pay for a new house, give you a job and feed you. You are happy where you are.

The Maquis were right in there cause. The Federation had no right to just give away those colonies without atleast asking what the people who life there think about it. You talk about Utopia (and as Sisko said, only the coreworlds have real Utopia, the colonies still have to struggle to maintain themselves). In a Utopian society, everybody matters. No one is forced into doing anything they don't want. So by forcing to settlers into abandoning their homes, the Federation is basicly showing their true colors.

Perhaps the attitude of doing what you are told works for Starfleet officers, but a civilian will struggle with that sort of forced relocation. Hell, even Starfleet officers saw how wrong it was and decided to join up.

1. Yes I'd be fine with moving, if we're talking in the context of a 24th century society where my needs are provided for and I'd be provided with a new home, and if it meant peace. Some random piece of property isn't worth a war. (I realize that it didn't exactly bring peace here, but I mean hypothetical or potential peace)

2. The Federation had EVERY right to do what they did. They're a democracy whose legitimately elected leaders made a legal treaty with another government, and I assume the treaty had broad support outside of that small minority of colonists.


A free society doesn't mean that nobody ever has to do anything they don't want to. That's more like anarchy.

 

[Timo]

people deserve to die and be brutalized because they stand up for themselves

That's just one step removed from people murdering their own female relatives because a "principle" must be upheld.

Standing up for themselves, indeed - a more selfish act could not be imagined. The reasons for staying are ridiculous, the obstacles to leaving nonexistent, and what is gained by resistance? Far less than nothing, as the stupidity dictates the loss of everything that could be saved by walking away. These testosterone-drunk men yearning for a fight are raping their own wives there, strangling their own daughters, mutilating their own goldfish and mashing up their precious butterfly collections, in addition to burning their own crops.

The Maquis really fought for the goals of the Central Command, so that makes them doubly the traitors to their homes and ideals. Was there something in the groundwater that gave them fractional IQs? Perhaps Cardassia had started the poisoning campaign earlier than we thought?

Timo Saloniemi