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Chick-fil-A digging themselves a hole

Yeah, it's their right to spend their money to fund these stupid groups. I don't want to help them. Also, I see a lot of people making a distinction between what the company is spending money on vs Cathy as an individual. I wouldn't want my money going to such a man even if it was only because of what he does in his private life. Yes, I realize that a lot of my money goes to causes I don't support. I still don't want to contribute to this company's wealth, or this individual's personal wealth.
 
Hell, one of the most famed and notorious televangelists of recent years is named Creflo Dollar for crying out loud. The guy has a lifestyle so lavish that he owns two Rolls-Royces, a personal jet and at least one home worth over a million dollars. Creflo refuses to disclose his personal salary to anybody and his ministry received an "F" grade for financial transparency from a major watchdog group.

It's all about the bling and the outrageously expensive suits for some guys who preach the words of God and Jesus Christ. The message comes second. If it holds even that lofty a place in their "ministry."

What's sad about it is that there are millions of people who flock to these guys, thinking learning the word of God will get them rich. That's what it's about for so many of them. They believe there must be some kind of secret, that there's an angle to getting in God's good graces, and so they pull stuff like this, thinking it would please Him.

"If I can make him happy, he'll give me stuff!"

And yet, these same people who want God to give them stuff just for sucking up, will turn around and condemn the poor and indigent as lazy, or slothful, just for needing a safety net.

You guys have nailed it on the head about a vast majority of what is being taught in the churches these days in this country. It's shameful.

At my parent's church recently they were preparing care packages for s local shelter, and some in the membership were upset they were spending time, effort and money on those in need in their community. The exact words expressed, "Why are we wasting all this on them?"

Last time I checked, Christ was VERY specific about taking care of the poor and needy - "Whatever you do unto the least of these, you do unto me." Matthew 25:40
 
That reminds me of a story...a lot of people give the megachurches a bad rap...well, the mileage does vary, and I like my churches fairly small, but anyhoo...One Sunday morning the pastor of Second Baptist Church Houston, TX mounted his pulpit and gave an entire sermon on that subject and said he was giving it because a few days before his church had been doing that and he'd overheard a woman in the church call one of the people they were helping "those people." I have to give Dr. Young credit for that. He all but ripped her a new one that morning - and it was televised and broadcast around the world.
 
I found this article on the Huffington Post. I think it's a really good piece, and sums up my feelings on the matter better than I could.

Enough about Chick-fil-A already. Yes, what Chick-fil-A president Dan Cathy said about gay marriage "shaking a fist at God" was offensive, especially for gay people of faith. And yes, the parodies and memes were funny, the first dozen times around. With politicians and media seemingly on their side, some gay people feel like they have Chick-fil-A on the butcher's block, and now's the time to drop the cleaver. While the anti-Chick-fil-A crusade may score political points in the liberal enclaves of Boston and Chicago, where Democrat mayors are seeking to cast the restaurant chain into exile, in America's heartland it is costing us hard-earned support among conservatives, moderates and independents. Municipal bans on private business also raise serious constitutional concerns.
Go ahead and take Chick-fil-A off your menu. Tell your friends why the waffle fries aren't worth it, and spend your snack money on some gay-friendly Starbucks or Oreos instead. America has a long and proud tradition of voting with our feet and voting with our wallets. But there's a point at which a boycott jumps the shark, and when agents of government are discriminating against a business on the basis of political belief, the line's been crossed. At this point, the Chick-fil-A haters have lost sight of what we're really fighting for.
Turning a chicken sandwich into Public Gay Enemy Number One makes LGBT people look superficial, vindictive and juvenile -- everything that we as a community have worked hard to overcome. Remember, employers don't want drama queens on the payroll, military service is serious business, and marriage is not a right society grants to spoiled children. While in a perfect world our equality should not depend on our good behavior, in a world where our rights too often hinge on political reality, the way our movement conducts itself matters.
The "movable middle" moves both ways, and they don't like seeing people attacked relentlessly for their religion. Whatever the nuances, these voters see a man standing up for his beliefs against a politically powerful mob dead-set on driving him out of business. It's un-American, and when fellow conservatives are finally standing up and speaking out for marriage equality as consistent with the sober values of responsibility and commitment, splashing a popular American company with metaphorical chicken blood in protest is nothing less than friendly fire.
Even if marriage equality activists "won" and Chick-fil-A went out of business tomorrow, what would be gained? True, some businesses may hesitate to donate to antigay causes in the future, but LGBT people would have handed antigay organizations a weapon better than money can buy -- confirmation that gay people really are the thought police, willing and able to use the power of the state to impose our will on oppressed social conservatives. Instead of standing for an outdated and dying discrimination, Chick-fil-A would become a martyr for religious freedom.
In a free society there is room for disagreement on marriage, as there is room for disagreement on war, health care and taxes. Remember, this is about fried chicken, not cross burnings. After DOMA is repealed and civil marriage equality is the law of the land, there will still be people who believe that a marriage between two men is no marriage at all. While it may hurt some feelings that not everybody will want to dance at our weddings, freedom will still mean freedom for everyone -- even Dan Cathy. But in order to get to that day, LGBT Americans should take a lesson from Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.: "We must forever conduct our struggle on the high plane of dignity and discipline."
Regarding fundamental disagreements on deeply personal issues, Thomas Jefferson said, "The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." As to using government authority to silence these disagreements, "Constraint may make him worse by making him a hypocrite, but it will never make him a truer man. It may fix him obstinately in his errors, but will not cure them. Reason and free enquiry are the only effectual agents against error."
When we are recruiting the Muppets and our greatest enemy's battle cry is "Eat Mor Chikin," we can be assured that "reason" has left the building. The lunch break is over. It's time to get back to work, folks.



Follow R. Clarke Cooper on Twitter: www.twitter.com/RClarkeCooper
 
Hmm, I have to disagree. I find Mr. Cooper to be very condescending and he's treating this like it's about politics and civility. Once again, it's sending the message that Mr. Cathy was free to express himself however he wanted (even Cooper admits Cathy's phrasing was "offensive"), but those who disagree must do so in a "societalyl correct manner." In other words, "Dan Cathy had a right to say what he wanted to, even if it was offensive, but you're being childish because you are boycotting a fast food chain."

Turning a chicken sandwich into Public Gay Enemy Number One makes LGBT people look superficial, vindictive and juvenile -- everything that we as a community have worked hard to overcome. Remember, employers don't want drama queens on the payroll, military service is serious business, and marriage is not a right society grants to spoiled children. While in a perfect world our equality should not depend on our good behavior, in a world where our rights too often hinge on political reality, the way our movement conducts itself matters.

It sounds to me as if his message is "Shut up, eat your chicken, and behave. Then and only then will we (ie society) start listening to you." It sounds like a parent talking to a child who threw a fit in a toy store: "Now, now, whining won't get you what you want. Why don't you try asking politely."

I can just imagine Mr. Cooper in the 60's:

Turning a bus seat into Public Equal Rights Enemy Number One makes Black people look superficial, vindictive and juvenile -- everything that we as a community have worked hard to overcome. Remember, employers don't want drama queens on the payroll, military service is serious business, and equal rights are not something society grants to spoiled children. While in a perfect world our equality should not depend on our good behavior, in a world where our rights too often hinge on political reality, the way our movement conducts itself matters.

I'm sorry, but as someone who supports Gay Rights, I just feel as if Mr. Cooper is calling us "spoiled children" just because I don't want my money going to a cause I don't support.

Then there's this:
Even if marriage equality activists "won" and Chick-fil-A went out of business tomorrow, what would be gained? True, some businesses may hesitate to donate to antigay causes in the future, but LGBT people would have handed antigay organizations a weapon better than money can buy -- confirmation that gay people really are the thought police, willing and able to use the power of the state to impose our will on oppressed social conservatives. Instead of standing for an outdated and dying discrimination, Chick-fil-A would become a martyr for religious freedom.

Again, he's saying we're going about it wrong, but he's not really offering a better solution, other than "use the proper channels." In other words, he wants us to work through a system which is notoriously slow, corrupt, and reticent to change.

It goes back to what I was saying before, if Cooper was around in the 60's, he'd be against the Montgomery boycotts, the Civil Rights March on Washington, etc. Basically, all of the things that finally convinced America it had to change. Can you imagine if Martin Luther King, Jr. instead of leading the Civil Rights Movement said, "Society views us as spoiled children, so we'll just work within the system, and maybe in a few decades, we'll have enough say in congress to get the rights we deserve."?

I don't want to see Chick-Fil-A go out of business. I really don't. I don't even necessarily want Mr. Cathy to change his mind (that would be wonderful, but unlikely). However, again, if he has the Constitutional right (and he does) to say and support what he wants, then those who disagree should have the same rights to do so.

Now if people were calling for violence against Chick-Fi-A, its employees, and its customers, I would wholeheartedly agree with Mr. Cooper. But that's not what's going on, people are disagreeing with their wallets and trying to convince their friends to do the same.

And, again, I'm talking about the individual here, not about the mayors of Boston, Chicago, and Philadelphia, which is a whole different issue.
 
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Good luck with that one. The way I see it,I don't know why people are acting so shocked over this. Walk in to any Chick-fil-a restaurant and their "We are closed on Sundays because of our christian beliefs" is staring you right in the face. The president of the company was asked a question that everyone in their brother already knew the answer to. He didn't post a big sign and advertise it.He was asked a question and he answered it.

The issue most people have is that they donate to anti-gay groups. I don't give a shit about his personal beliefs if he didn't discriminate at all. They did quickly release a statement saying that they serve everyone regardless of sexual orientation. All they have to do is go one step further and say that they aren't going to be politically involved at all.

If that upsets some people, then they have the right to not eat there without scorn. If it doesn't bother the other side, then they have the right to eat there without scorn as well. Simple.

If that were the case, there wouldn't be too giant threads filled with religious posters criticizing those who want to boycott Chick-fil-A.

ETA: Regarding Mr. Cooper's blog post. There's different schools of thought here, just like there were different schools in the 1950s and 60s Civil Rights movement. One is far more aggressive - we need to take what we're already entitled to. The other is far more passive and is about gaining acceptance. Gay acceptance was once such an extreme idea that people would essentially dismiss it out of hand. Things have changed dramatically for the better and I think gay people coming out into the open and showing that they are just like everyone else is a big part of it. On the other hand, there's room to disagree over whether this is the best strategy - especially when politically active groups are working to reverse the gains that have been made through this "positive public image" strategy. So, while I think he makes valid points, I also don't think it's wrong to disagree with him here. Like he said, it's just one chicken fast food chain. I don't think the backlash to a boycott is as strong as he thinks (although I don't think the boycott will be effective in the long run either).
 
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I always enjoy reading Granderson's work. He comes at it from the gay angle but doesn't hit you over the head with it.
 
Good luck with that one. The way I see it,I don't know why people are acting so shocked over this. Walk in to any Chick-fil-a restaurant and their "We are closed on Sundays because of our christian beliefs" is staring you right in the face. The president of the company was asked a question that everyone in their brother already knew the answer to. He didn't post a big sign and advertise it.He was asked a question and he answered it.

The issue most people have is that they donate to anti-gay groups. I don't give a shit about his personal beliefs if he didn't discriminate at all. They did quickly release a statement saying that they serve everyone regardless of sexual orientation. All they have to do is go one step further and say that they aren't going to be politically involved at all.

They have just as much right to get politically involved as any other business does. That pesky first amendment again. Unless they are funding terrorist organizations there is nothing illegal about it.

If that were the case, there wouldn't be too giant threads filled with religious posters criticizing those who want to boycott Chick-fil-A.

I have't had a chance to read this entire thread, but from what I've seen it mainly consists of one side upset because the other chooses to continue to do business at the place. That and the religion bashing but that tends to be par for the course on this site.

ETA: Regarding Mr. Cooper's blog post. There's different schools of thought here, just like there were different schools in the 1950s and 60s Civil Rights movement. One is far more aggressive - we need to take what we're already entitled to. The other is far more passive and is about gaining acceptance. Gay acceptance was once such an extreme idea that people would essentially dismiss it out of hand. Things have changed dramatically for the better and I think gay people coming out into the open and showing that they are just like everyone else is a big part of it. On the other hand, there's room to disagree over whether this is the best strategy - especially when politically active groups are working to reverse the gains that have been made through this "positive public image" strategy. So, while I think he makes valid points, I also don't think it's wrong to disagree with him here. Like he said, it's just one chicken fast food chain. I don't think the backlash to a boycott is as strong as he thinks (although I don't think the boycott will be effective in the long run either).

In the end all this did was divert the public's attention for a short time from things that really matter. Pretty soon the economy , unemployment, the deficit and world affairs will be back in the spot light again. Unless of course someone else gives an answer that we already knew but decide to make a big deal of anyway. We wouldn't be americans if we didn't have something to be offended over. :rolleyes:
 
We wouldn't be americans if we didn't have something to be offended over.
Thank you. I'm a lot more worried about the economy, unemployment, the deficit, troops in Afghanistan, homeland security, healthcare reform, etc. than this silliness.
 
We wouldn't be americans if we didn't have something to be offended over. :rolleyes:

This is probably the most honest thing I've heard around here in a while.
It's the most stupid thing I've heard in a while.

There are bigger outrages in the world...so what? That doesn't mean people should turn a blind eye to bigotry.
 
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I'm a lot more worried about the economy, unemployment, the deficit, troops in Afghanistan, homeland security, healthcare reform, etc. than this silliness.

How can you be worried about such petty things while there are kids starving in Africa? :(


:rolleyes:
 
OK, I hope they do nicely too before I worry about some well fed pillow biter out to get noticed. I would like to see the hungry be fed. I have no idea how to accomplish this, but maybe they could go to Chik-Fil-A.
 
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OK, I hope they do nicely too before I worry about some well fed pillow biter out to get noticed. I would like to see the hungry be fed. I have no idea how to accomplish this, but maybe they could go to Chik-Fil-A.

"Well fed pillow biter"? What the fuck, man?
 
Honestly, if my choices were Chik-fil-A or starve, I think I'd choose starve.

Even the stench of that place makes me nauseous.

They put one up next to my favorite pet store about a year ago. I had to stop going because I couldn't tolerate the small.
 
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