I'm religious. I'm not disturbed or offended by it. I'm disturbed when people use religion as an excuse to say cruel things, and to curtail the rights of other people.
Chick-fil-A digging themselves a hole
- Thread starter Ar-Pharazon
- Start date
I'm religious. I'm not disturbed or offended by it. I'm disturbed when people use religion as an excuse to say cruel things, and to curtail the rights of other people.
This truly shows the motive of non-Christians.
You completely miss the point. It's not about Cathy having a bigoted opinion, it's about the company actively donating to discriminatory causes/groups, and having questionable hiring practices. There would be little point in boycotting a company just because the heads have dumb personal opinions. Chick-Fil-A have no right to try to enforce their viewpoints on others.
Between your earlier post in the thread where you assumed people were condemning Christians/Catholics in general and therefore didn't want to "take a side" (despite no one doing anything of the sort) and this post, I'm forced to believe that you don't understand the difference between an attack on someone's particular twisted interpretation of God and an attack on all interpretations of God or all religious beliefs. You should look into that.
Not everyone believes God is an evil, arrogant, small-minded, bigoted prick who condemns people to eternal torment for giving in to the consensual desires he created or for growing up in a part of the world where a different religion is dominant. If you don't believe God is like that, what's the problem? And if you do, I don't care if it disturbs you.
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Amaris
Guest
Identifying and establishing which people plan on hurting them in the name of their ideology? Yes, it's a smart thing to do.
Be proud. You stood firm on your principles.
Also, some of those non-Christians are Christians. Funny story, that.
This is an excellent post I fully support. Religion aside, is not America a place where we are able to voice differing opinions? Whether you agree with it or not, everyone has the right to voice theirs. I like this freedom, it makes us unique. I don't want to lose it. America is a big country of Religious diversity, a little more tolerance of people that chose to believe in a higher being might be a respectable thing to do for a person who lives in this world. Religion is a big part of the world we live in, and the people we are around.
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Amaris
Guest
No. Tolerance goes hand and hand with respect. I may not agree with your beliefs, but I can tolerate and respect them. However, the moment you cross over from belief to action, you lose that respect.
You lost that respect when you felt it was a grand old cause to help suppress the rights of my fellow citizens. You deserve no respect or tolerance for that.
Bigotry and attempts to oppress the civil rights of others in the name of religious inspired hate deserves nothing but contempt.
If I had to get outraged about a company giving to charity or stepping on rights, there'd be no limit.
Almost all franchises limit 2nd Amendment rights, which outrages many gun owners. Most of them donate to charities that are actively trying to shut down US energy production, throwing hundreds of thousands of struggling people out of work, making poor people decide between food or gas, and probably throwing women into prostitution. Many of them import foods picked by virtual slaves, and in some cases real slaves (All those fancy French restaurants were using slave-picked chocolate).
Many others serve fish from badly overfished areas and species, serve meat from animals raised in less-than-happy conditions, or vegetables grown with the use of pesticides or planet-destroying farm practices. All use massive levels of planet-destroying CO2 to grow, process, ship, and cook their food.
Many restaurants donate to politicians who sought to limit free speech on the Internet, and many others donated to politicians who opposed gay marriage (like Obama did until recently). Those would be the people who actually vote on laws governing gay marriage. And many supported politicians who have no qualms about supporting radical imams who call for the execution of gays - and enforce those executions in their home countries.
If I ran around screaming that all those restaurants were evil oppressors I'd end up a psychotic freak wearing a billboard talking about the end-of-days.
So yeah, outrage is limited, and you're all excitedly gazing at a shiny spoon like a kid in a special-ed class. Do you really think any ad run by the groups Chick-Fil-A donated to, using only the money Chick-Fil-A donated (as opposed to hundreds of thousands of other contributions) changed a single vote on a gay marriage issue? Is there someone out there who was all for gay marriage until they saw a bizarre reference to Leviticus on a TV commercial? No, there's not.
If Chick-Fil-A's spending actually affected people's behavior, we wouldn't have a measurable divorce rate, Hollywood would still be making musicals from the 1930's, everyone would be going to church, gays would decide to switch, and the only thing on the radio would be sermons and gospel music.
Last time I checked, it wasn't religious people who were the victims of intolerance in America, it was the gays. You Christians even get your god mentioned in the Pledge of Allegiance, cry me a fucking river.
NebulaClassGuy
Lieutenant Commander
It's HIS company, though. He has a right to donate its money to whatever cause(s) he wants.
Now, if Chick-fil-A is indeed intentionally not hiring gay people, then I agree, that is very wrong, and is grounds for a discrimination lawsuit, which I'm sure Chick-fil-A would lose.
But aside from that instance, I stand by Cathy's right to both believe what he believes, and to support whatever cause(s) he wishes to, even if I don't agree with them, because that's his right.
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Amaris
Guest
It is not his right to suppress the rights of others. He is free to believe whatever he wants, until he actively works to curtail others' rights and freedoms. The organizations to which he donates work actively to do just that.
Chick-fil-A's programs and charities are highly discriminatory. Again, that is not just his belief, it's action taken to deny rights to others because of that belief.
If I tell you gay marriage is a sin, I'm expressing my right to free speech.
If I pay a company millions of dollars to work towards suppressing your right to freedom of expression, then I am abusing that right.
Do you understand?
Many beliefs ultimately lead to action, if we don't act on our belief, then how faithful to our beliefs are we really? It goes hand in hand. I take the Bible as the word of God, and what it says is right, wrong, sin and not, and my actions that follow are based on that. I'm not perfect, I don't always do the right thing, but my heart is in the right place. If I were perfect I'd be Jesus :P So i'm far far far from that, I make mistakes everyday and constantly do the wrong thing.
I'm not oppressing anyone's rights. Just cause I like to eat at Chick-Fil-A? I like their food, sue me. I have no real power to change gay marriage, even if I speak out on it, I don't really have the power to make it legal or not.
Just for your information, I've never voted on any bill one way or another about gay marriage, not that that is any of your business. I honestly don't even like a lot of republicans in office, or for election. I do vote on the president, and I chose whom I think is the lesser of the evils, but honestly no candidate right now impresses me, I really don't like any of them, I'm more for the little guy, maybe I'll vote independent heh.
NebulaClassGuy
Lieutenant Commander
I understand perfectly, thank you very much.
I feel like you're misunderstanding a lot of the thread. Most people here aren't going out of their way to protest against Chick-fil-A, or freaking out about this. In fact, a lot of us already knew about the company's history. Choosing not to eat there is about as far as it goes. The passion and anger and other emotions you're seeing here speak to the larger issues at hand and are tied in to much more than Chick-fil-A.
Honestly, even if someone did want to go all out and protest the restaurant in a much more vocal way, that's okay. It's okay to be passionate about things. Sure, we can't fight every injustice and we certainly can't fight things we don't know about. But that's no reason to ignore something that is right in front of our face.
This. Squared.
And if apostle, Knight Templar and certain others have demonstrated anything during their spotted tenures on the boards it's that the religious right and its fellow travelers demand with red faces and screaming mouths tolerance or even legal acceptance of their own beliefs and tenets, but the opinions and stands of those who aren't part of their group or on their side are rarely if ever respected.
People who believe it's a directive from God to smash and vanquish what they see as iniquity, uncleanliness and evil rarely respect those who don't agree with their beliefs or methods. They're just more people who need to be effectively marginalized as liberals, gay lovers, Sodomites, pagans, dangers to the family, threats to traditional marriage, nonbelievers, misguided, un-American, impure, unholy, unrighteous, anti-religious, anti-faith and anti-God. And they would probably be some of the first people targeted if hardcore fundamentalists ever wielded the political and legal power that many of them clearly want.
Sure he does, no one is denying him that, but people have a right to voice disagreement about it too.
Again, it's not about what he believes, but what he is attempting to enforce where he can that is the issue. Cathy is doing more than just voicing offensive opinions, he is contributing to discriminatory practices. That is what people are attacking.
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Amaris
Guest
All lip service. "I'm just a humble, imperfect Christian" is a classic example of getting out from under one's own actions.
"Sure, I'm not perfect, I make mistakes, I am in no position to judge, but you shouldn't have your rights because I think they're wrong" is a cowardly way to live, kid.
It's not as simple as that. You didn't just say "I like to eat at Chick-Fil-A", you said:
That's a little bit more than saying "I like to eat at Chick-Fil-A". You agreed with their stance, you liked what they did, you wished more companies would do the same.
For the love of your god, at least stand up and accept your own words.
I don't care.
NebulaClassGuy
Lieutenant Commander
I'm simply saying that both sides have a right to their views. I have not once called anyone a name, cited the Bible, used profanity, or mocked anyone's viewpoint. I have said what I intended to say, so my work here is done.
I'll make it real simple, and conclude.
I like the food at Chick-Fil-A, it tastes good. I really like their sweet tea, I'm a sweet tea fanatic. I'll continue to eat there because I like their food, and if they support the things I support, then that's a bonus.
I think I'll have Chick-Fil-A for lunch tomorrow.
I like the food at Chick-Fil-A, it tastes good. I really like their sweet tea, I'm a sweet tea fanatic. I'll continue to eat there because I like their food, and if they support the things I support, then that's a bonus.
I think I'll have Chick-Fil-A for lunch tomorrow.
