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Is Apple a cult?

Their MP3 players are great, but forget the iPhone (it's alright, but Galaxy S-series for me) and forget their computers. Aside from their displays, they just aren't worth the price of entry.
And, yet, millions of people disagree with you.

Interesting how that works, yes?

That's a straw man argument.. just because something is commercially successful doesn't automatically mean it's a good product or that it's the best.

Take movies for example.. most people would agree that Michael Bay movies are creatively shit but millions run to the theater each time to see shit blown up real good and his movies are steady big buck earners (being one of the very few steady and dependable people in Hollywood which is why he's so much in demand).

The same applies to Apple products.. as someone has said earlier in this thread Apple takes normal products and puts their spin on them making them fashionable and desirable. Their ideas are good or else they would have never broken out of their decline in the 90s. That's why they're so in demand.. from the technical point they are amongst the leaders but their head start isn't so big that they could rest easily.
 
Their MP3 players are great, but forget the iPhone (it's alright, but Galaxy S-series for me) and forget their computers. Aside from their displays, they just aren't worth the price of entry.
I can't seem to find the post this came from, but w/e.
Their computers are worth "the price of entry" (for me) because
a) they look nice, and
b) they run OS X

The main reason I buy Apple things is because they all integrate together so well. And the more different Apple things you have, the ways they work together increase significantly.
 
I'm generally far less interested in who makes a given product as long as it's reasonably well made and functions like it's supposed to.
:bolian:

I appreciate Apple's superb sense of design, /.../
I live in the land of Bang & Olufsen -believe me when I say that "design" isn't more than a package (which you should have known in the first place).

What Apple has done successfully is take what is essentially commodity technology (music players, computers, etc.) and turn them into fashion statements and status symbols. It's what they do better than basically any other technology company: they've made a distinctive brand and convinced people that they need it.
BINGO!
 
I wanted to buy an mp3 player a while back and I tried and sent back like 4 or 5 before settling on an iPod. I really wanted one that wasn't tied into all the Apple baggage but one by one I ended up closer and closer to Apple. Whether it was not being able to save your place in an audiobook, horrible slow or clumsy UI's, not being able to use Rhapsody, and so on and on. I kept finding the only one that could really do all that I wanted was an iPod. It wasn't just because it was trendy or stylish.

I've always been tempted by Macs but never wanted to pay the high price to try one out plus being scared of becoming part of the cult. :lol:
 
Have fun.. you've certainly bought a very good product.

I'm pretty sure that i would enjoy an iPhone or a Mac but i have other issues with Apple that have little to do with the actual usage of their tech (for the most part).
 
That's why Apple is so damn successful.. they've managed to excite their customers.

Their products are good.. no question but they have managed to form almost a mythology around their products where people are camping in front of the stores just so they can be amongst the first to get the new i and be able to brag about it (which in reality is all there is to it.. being the centre somewhere just because you have the latest i product before anyone else in your circle of friends/colleagues/family).

And out of the tens of millions of apple customers how many actually fit that mold, of being well fanatic about their products?

How many Trek fans would go to a convention?

How many football fans dress up in excessive ways for their football teams?

Almost anything has its truly dedicated, fanatic fan?

From coin collectors to vacuum cleaners (Seriously don't get my mother started on the various models Electrolux produced before they were bought out).

Yet it doesn't mean those few (I mean tiny percentage of total user group) reflect the average user.

It's like reading about a K/S fan and assuming all people who not only love Trek but causally watch trek believe Kirk and Spock are having sexual relations.

And if "the look" of the device was the primary factor in apple sales, please, please explain why the "cube" wasn't one of their strongest selling devices.

And yes Apple has tried to incorporate both function and beauty. But its hardly the only company that thinks both can go hand in hand. Look at cars. How many people are impacted by the design of a car, and not just the function of it. And how much are people willing to spend far and above the price of a purely function car. For the general masses the figure can be tens of thousands of dollars. For something that will have a life cycle fairly similar to most apple products.
 
I don't think we are talking about the sane portion of Apple users but the fringe element that gets emotional (in the negative sense) as soon as you dare criticize an Apple product or Apple itself because they do have flaws.

And if "the look" of the device was the primary factor in apple sales, please, please explain why the "cube" wasn't one of their strongest selling devices.
Because it's a pre Steve Jobs "golden era" product meaning it may have been technically a good product but it didn't have the mass "sex" appeal of the new iXX products of which the iPod and iPhone are the first of their kind.

As i said before all Apple products are good products quality wise.. they are easy to use, have the perfect mix of design and function and have tons of programs/apps and additional aftermarket products to expand their scope.

Apple has managed to achieve the holy grail in product marketing.. their products are sexy and people get excited about it. In the days of Jobs his presentations were true events and not merely "Here is our product.. let me run through the features and technical specs..". They were treated almost as rock concerts by fans and this is what every company strives for.. when you manage to excite your customers like this you have achieved top spot.

What we are talking about here is on the one hand the sometimes fanatical devotion of people to their products (but that exists almost for every product out there.. Apple is just a bit more public) and the methods Apple uses to do their business, i.e. exploiting their sales staff and burning them out because they know that due to their image people are lining up to work for them and that they can get away with it because people don't care as long as they get shiny new iToys every year.
 
I generally think Apple is full of itself, but that doesn't mean they make bad products... just generally way-overpriced products. That being said, I will admit that I own two iPods... a 20GB iPod Photo, and a 4GB 1st generation iPod Nano, and use and love both. But I use them for portable music only, and when it comes to buying a computer, I'll buy a PC over an Apple any day, out of both cost and expandability.

My loyalty to Apple ended when the company decided that IT would decide what its customers want, instead of actually listening to them, and choosing to focus on making things cosmetically attractive over raw substance and utility. But the first computers I ever used and learned on were Apples... the old Apple II up to the PowerPC, so I have nothing against the company so much as the business philosophy the currently adopt.
 
What Apple has done successfully is take what is essentially commodity technology (music players, computers, etc.) and turn them into fashion statements and status symbols. It's what they do better than basically any other technology company: they've made a distinctive brand and convinced people that they need it.

I think it's more than a fashion statement. It's really a design statement (more broadly encompassing). They did come up with many innovative designs and techniques, some of which were improvements upon existing technology but others that were unique (like the touch sensitive click wheel). But, they also became adept at maximizing profits by tricking the consumer through things like intentional choices in materials to show premature wear, fragility to promote breakage and fuel additional income from repairs, and the whole memory fiasco (detailed below).

[RANT]
The iPod is a beautiful minimalist looking device. But what's the deal with that polished chrome backing? While it looks terrific when new, in due time you'll see an eye popping mess of swirls, not a clean mirror finish as it looked when new. THIS is what annoys me with Apple. They engineer a number of things into their products to eventually push you towards buying something new.

Remember the iPhone 1G? It was insanely expensive compared to other smart phones at the time and was followed up with a much more capable 2G at a cheaper price. 1G owners finally got a rebate because they were so pissed and screamed at Apple for their outright exploitation.

A friend of mine bought a 1G iPad. He paid top dollar to be an early adopter. You remember what happened? The 2G version soon came out with superior features, including a camera--technology that already existed and could have easily been incorporated into the 1G. But Apple wanted to milk profits and so they staggered some features for this very reason. The 2G could have easily been the 1G. And don't forget that the touch screen is not made very tough (like Gorilla glass); a number of YouTube videos will proudly demonstrate how fragile it is. But amazingly enough, that didn't stop people from buying it. Why? Because most people think "that won't happen to me--I won't drop it."

Apple has a thing about memory: it wants to grossly overcharge for it and so it does. All Apple devices (except Macs) have fixed internal memory. You are never given a micro SD card slot. Why? Because Apple makes an enormous amount of money on memory. $5 buys you an 8Gb micro SD card. To go from the 8Gb iPhone to the 16Gb model (an increase of 8Gb) costs you $100. Go from the iPhone 8Gb to the 64Gb version? That will be $299 more please. You do the math. NOTHING to do with extra features. You are strictly paying for memory. It's almost scandalous.

I wanted to buy an mp3 player a while back and I tried and sent back like 4 or 5 before settling on an iPod. I really wanted one that wasn't tied into all the Apple baggage but one by one I ended up closer and closer to Apple. Whether it was not being able to save your place in an audiobook, horrible slow or clumsy UI's, not being able to use Rhapsody, and so on and on. I kept finding the only one that could really do all that I wanted was an iPod. It wasn't just because it was trendy or stylish.

I've always been tempted by Macs but never wanted to pay the high price to try one out plus being scared of becoming part of the cult. :lol:
I bought two iPod Nanos and they turned out to be good choices. I paid $249 for the 1st gen when it came out and used it straight for 6 years with no real issues, except a battery recall (that's why I no longer have it). To guard the fragile exterior, I coated it with a clear protective skin and then inserted it in a silicone casing. If I bought those from Apple, I would have paid a premium, but instead I bought good quality aftermarket ones for 1/10th the price. I paid $90 for a used 5th generation, with far greater features than the 1st gen. I wasn't going to pay $249 for it, so I waited until a great condition used one came around. But the 6th generation Nano? Yikes... it's disappointing, whereby Apple lost sight of the product purpose. The click wheel made the iPod Nano. Without it, the ability to work the device without looking is lost (save the volume control). A bad decision, IMHO. Anyway, I have been tempted to get a Mac, but balked at the software cost markup for the Apple versions. Plus, there are numerous compability problems with their operating system upgrades, more so than with Windows.


Apple is extremely clever at saturating the market with advertising that seduces the buyer to put up with deficiencies and overpay for what you get. They pump up the iPhone 4GS with Siri so much, like you're a complete loser for buying anything else. Buy a cell phone that has fragile glass on the front and back, plus a battery that cannot be changed by the user, plus no external memory card support? Despite these glaring drawbacks, Apple is an extremely rich company. They are adept at distracting you from looking at the flaws and instead fawning over the wins. Their products are indeed beautifully designed, and form does not compromise function--it only tends to compromise flexibility and durability.

What really irks me is how Apple is one of the wealthiest companies in the world and yet I've heard form several sources that employees are overworked and underpaid for what they do, because they are convinced that being at Apple is a privilege and way of life that speaks to them. It's almost like Apple became the 1984 corporation they derided in that famous Apple commercial in 1984.
[/RANT]

In any case, it will be interesting to see how the culture at Apple changes over time with Steve Jobs no longer at the helm. Better, worse, or stay the same? Only time will tell.
 
I don't see a reason why they would change their style of operations.. why change a well working system?

However what interests me are future innovations.. Jobs wasn't a good engineer (that was Wozniak) but he was a true tech visioneer able to envision new trends and what technology could do for a person.

That's what made Apple one of the most successful companies out there and it's why the next 10 years or so will be crucial for Apple. It will not be enough to just improve the technology by making it faster and having new features.. if Apple does just that they may lose top spot to the next Jobs level visionary and sink back on their pre-Jobs era level.
 
What Apple has done successfully is take what is essentially commodity technology (music players, computers, etc.) and turn them into fashion statements and status symbols. It's what they do better than basically any other technology company: they've made a distinctive brand and convinced people that they need it.

Well said.

Disclaimer: I'm in rant mode so the following may not make sense.

I have decided that I don't like Apple anymore. I liked them when they were quirky, different and chic. Now I just see them as an Omnicorp forcing everyone to use only their precious, sanctioned software through their App(TM) store, and this is mostly through the Iphones and Ipad that I am more than happy to live without.

"Can't do that anymore."
"Can't do this anymore."
"Must use only Apple (TM) approved software and Apps (R)"

This idea of taking away functionality and options in favor of paying for everything over a period of time (rather than the historical one time payment and use forever) really rubs me the wrong way. And I don't want to play with those rules. I'm thinking of the direction the entire portable/handheld business model is going here, not specifically Apple products. The list of things we can't do with Windows 8 absolutely fucking floors me.

Honestly, I'd be happier running windows 95 on a shitty old laptop. :lol: And maybe I should. I've enjoyed my first Imac over the past year (even though the hard drive died and it was a pain in the ass backing everything up) but besides the fact that you don't have to spend most of your time uninstalling useless shit and turning off notifications and settings like crazy for hours on first use (yes, I'm looking at you, PC) it's pretty much the same to me. PC. Mac. They all have hard drives which die eventually. It's just a matter of time.

As to the original point, I do see Apple as a cult of sorts. The PC bashing I find quite amusing, and not without truth, but I still don't think Apple is categorically superior.
 
I've enjoyed my first Imac over the past year (even though the hard drive died and it was a pain in the ass backing everything up) but besides the fact that you don't have to spend most of your time uninstalling useless shit and turning off notifications and settings like crazy for hours on first use (yes, I'm looking at you, PC) it's pretty much the same to me. PC. Mac.

That does suck though that comes down to the PC makers. I spent a premium on my last PC and it didn't have any lameware installed. Makes a difference which flavor of OS you have as well, Vista Ultimate works a lot nicer than the vanilla versions, though again, you get what you pay for.
 
^^ Lameware... I like that. Never heard that term before, but it makes sense.

I've been thinking about this thread/topic a lot recently. In general, Apple makes my skin crawl and it's a completely different feeling than when PCs were dominating. I prefer Mac to PC when working but I don't trust Apple. As a company, the bigger the get, the greedier. Corporate greed generally brings nothing positive to the world.
 

Bastards. "Oh, the taxes are so high for companies based in the USA. Whaaaaa!" Oh, really? Hmmmm... avoid paying taxes by keeping profits overseas and well, by golly, you're considered the wealthiest company worldwide!

Exxon-Mobil complains of taxes and does the same thing. Record profit making company, year in and year out. Why? Well, they avoid paying a lot of taxes! How about those who play fair?

When a company is phenomenally wealthy and you see them doing this shit, it just makes your stomach turn. I don't applaud them. I detest their unscrupulous practices of super greed.
 
I just feel sorry for people who are sucked into paying $200 for an $80 hard drive when they want to upgrade the specs of their computer. I mean come on, they use standard internal parts, they have no excuse to charge that much for them.

I built my PC (which can run iOS, btw) for about £350 all in, and it outperforms macs that cost up to about £3000. It's pathetic. You're paying for the glowy apple on the front, an OS you can't modify, and the fact you aren't allowed to fix it yourself.

Apple appeals to ignorant people who only care about the name or looks. I know there are some people who will buy their products for an actual reason (beats me what that reason is though) My brother told me he's willing to pay twice the price for a mac laptop because it looks nice. I mean come on, that's just fucking stupid. I've never seen an apple product that can do something another brand can't at half the price.

I hear some people saying they like them because they last, if you get an ipod nano wet, even slightly then it's a gonner (from my experience). And I've got a Fujitsu laptop made in 2004 that still works absolutely perfectly.
 
When a company is phenomenally wealthy and you see them doing this shit, it just makes your stomach turn. I don't applaud them. I detest their unscrupulous practices of super greed.

It's not just that they're not paying taxes, they're pretending they'll someday pay the taxes so they can write their pure-profits into a column labeled "taxes to be paid upon the heat-death of the universe" and thus they don't list that money as pure-profit, and don't have to pay stock dividends on all the profits they're making. So about $10 billion os socked away, not available to either the tax man or the stock holders.
 
Apple appeals to ignorant people who only care about the name or looks.

Excuse me? I've played around with other tablets and the iPad simply blows them away in speed and how smooth programs actually run.
 
^ I asked my girlfriend for a newspaper.

She said, "Don't be so old fashioned. Here, use my iPad."

That spider never knew what hit it.
 
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