The OFFICIAL STNG-R general discussion thread!

[Maxwell Everett]

The plot thickens. Here's the list I've compiled of where dialogue can be heard in the mix (please correct me if I've made a mistake):

FL = front left
C = center
FR = front right

"Encounter at Farpoint" - C, FR
"The Naked Now" - C
"Code of Honor" - C
"The Last Outpost" - C
"Where No One Has Gone Before" - C
"Lonely Among Us" - C
"Justice" - C
"The Battle" - C
"Hide and Q" - FL, C, FR
"Haven" - FL, C, FR
"The Big Goodbye" - FL, C, FR
"Datalore" - FL, C, FR
"Angel One" - C
"11001001" - FL, C, FR
"Too Short a Season" - FL, C, FR
"When the Bough Breaks" - C
"Home Soil" - C
"Coming of Age" - C
"Heart of Glory" - C
"The Arsenal of Freedom" - C
"Symbiosis" - C
"Skin of Evil" - C
"We'll Always Have Paris" - C
"Conspiracy" - C
"The Neutral Zone" - C

***

I'll just note that I didn't bother putting my ear next to any of the rear channels to check. The only real troublesome one is the pilot because it is unbalanced and because it differs from the Next Level sampler... but the others in the middle there are strange anomalies as well.

 

[Scotty]

^I really didn't need to hear about that. So half a dozen sound mixes are mixed incorrectly. Though it isn't uncommen for dialogue to bleed nto both front channels, it still s sloppy.

 

[Sho]

Is FL+C+FR really such a big problem? At least it's not off-balance then as with EaF.

 

[Maxwell Everett]

^I really didn't need to hear about that. So half a dozen sound mixes are mixed incorrectly. Though it isn't uncommen for dialogue to bleed nto both front channels, it still s sloppy.

It's definitely not bleed over... the dialogue in the left and right channels (of those episodes affected) was loud and clear -- identical to what you can hear in the center channel. At this point, I'd only be willing to label "Farpoint" as incorrect until we know more... but the others may ultimately turn out to be errors in the mix and/or authoring.

I forwarded the info to someone who worked on the Next Level sampler and he said he'll contact CBS tomorrow.

 

[Maxwell Everett]

Is FL+C+FR really such a big problem? At least it's not off-balance then as with EaF.

As I said in my post, I don't think it's as troublesome.

 

[Scotty]

^if you don't have a surround set or you aren't an audio enthusiast, then no it isn't a problem. But I am an enthusiast and dialogue should only come from the center. Furthermore, one wonders if you could call this a true 7.1 mix. Maybe the masters are too old to be properly remastered.

I'm curious however if the 5.1 mixes on the old DVDs also have audio bleeing into the fronts. As i am on holiday I'll check as soon as I get back.

 

[Scotty]

^I really didn't need to hear about that. So half a dozen sound mixes are mixed incorrectly. Though it isn't uncommen for dialogue to bleed nto both front channels, it still s sloppy.

It's definitely not bleed over... the dialogue in the left and right channels (of those episodes affected) was loud and clear -- identical to what you can hear in the center channel. At this point, I'd only be willing to label "Farpoint" as incorrect until we know more... but the others may ultimately turn out to be errors in the mix and/or authoring.

I forwarded the info to someone who worked on the Next Level sampler and he said he'll contact CBS tomorrow.

How does the dialogue in the front channels affect the left/right surround effects?

 

[Maxwell Everett]

How does the dialogue in the front channels affect the left/right surround effects?

Directional effects are perceivable on the center dialogue only episodes (like doors hissing open and closed on the left or right)... but I was listening for directional effects on "Hide and Q", like when Worf pours out his wine glass, then throws it to the right and it breaks off camera -- couldn't perceive a directionality to it.

 

[mswood]

In regards to the season two VFX being completed by a different company, I did notice in the trailer that the Enterprise looked markedly different, with it lacking the 'oomph' that season 1 had, also the planets in the before and after shot looked almost identical. I was hoping that the style done in season 1 would be carried over, however it appears that it may not be the case.

Are you talking about the stock shots that ILM created for the pilot, or the new shots that were done at the Post Group. Because I would expect some differences as the amount of production time the pilot effects had is much larger then the time a normal episode would get. So I would naturally expect some change in level of quality. Not to mention as the production team expanded their supervisors, each of them provided a different style to each of there episodes, and a Legato done episode in season two is going to look different then even his own episodes in season 1 (they talk about how they run themselves into the ground in season one), let alone the difference between Legato and Curry.

Hmm possibly, but im moreso referring to some of the screenshots that have been released thus far. For example, the shot of the Enterprise approaching Minos in "Arsenal of Freedom" is terrific, and shows a great improvement in not only the Enterprise and the planet itself. Compare that to the shot of the Enterprise in orbit of a planet in the season 2 trailer and the difference is staggering, well to me at least anyway.

That shot was from the Pilot (done by ILM), I am assuming you are then comparing it to the Enterprise planet flyby used in "the Child", which is work done by the "Post Group". ILM had much more time to plan out shots, then what the Post Group could (for the most part), but I would also not just assume based on caps without seeing what standard and compression was used for the caps.

Just off the various caps we have seen from TrekCore, to others sites, to reviews, to fans posting here, you can see a difference in some of the footage.

And also, as I mentioned as the show progressed and the effects teams grew, the style of work done was quite different.

For example, I loved the look of the Child's FX, (at least off the quality we could see) as it seemed to really soak up the blues of the planet, other shots in that season didn't have that same look, the other close one was the shots in the energy vortex (also strong blues) in Unnatural selection.

Now of course it could also be the difference in the fx company doing the transfer, but at this stage its really to early to rule out differences that actually happened when they were filmed originally.

 

[Pindar]

Directional effects are perceivable on the center dialogue only episodes (like doors hissing open and closed on the left or right)... but I was listening for directional effects on "Hide and Q", like when Worf pours out his wine glass, then throws it to the right and it breaks off camera -- couldn't perceive a directionality to it.

Thanks for checking the other disks, this really is dissapointing.

After all the the time, effort and hard work that has gone into this release I can't understand how the audio has been released in this state.

Hopefully there will be an official comment on this at some point, I am sure it wont bother me too much when it's balanced over the three front speakers.

This has kind of dampened my excitememtn over this project but it does still look amazing.

 

[Angel4576]

Hopefully there are lessons that have been learned ahead of the Season 2 release and onwards.

 

[Quinton O'Connor]

TrekMovie review is up:

http://trekmovie.com/2012/07/23/rev...neration-season-1-blu-ray-new-preview-images/

 

[NewHorizon]

You're really gonna let this relatively minor screw up in the grand scheme of things deter you from buying the season?

I'm 'waiting' to see what unfolds. I'm very patient. I've waited 25 years to see a spruced up TNG, waiting a few more months isn't going to hurt. If that is the only minor issue, I'll pick up the set but I am not particularly fond of buying something that isn't ready. We're all aware that the team was working some pretty crazy shifts to get this project finished...seems to me they were rushed a bit too much. An extra week or two of quality control would probably have avoided the sound issue.

I'm in no rush...nor should CBS be if they plan to avoid issues like this. This is no small project, and quality control has to be pumped up.

 

[Maxwell Everett]

Okay... the directional sound effects seem to still be there. The opening sequence with the Enterprise moving from left to right, right to left is a little hard for me to discern... it's very subtle -- but it sounds essentially the same whether it's a center dialogue only episode or a L, C, R episode.

What confirmed it for me though is in "Hide and Q" when Q appears as the three-headed Aldeberaan Serpent... there are circling points of light that have corresponding sounds which travel from the right speaker to the left.

(And by the way, there's a subtle VFX mistake where those circling lights momentarily freeze a number of frames before the camera cuts away on one occasion. It's when Q's voice says, "We have much to discuss..." I don't recall if it was this way on the DVDs or not.)

 

[BillJ]

In light of the sound issues in EAF now, I'm glad I waited before ordering. I certainly don't want to pay for a defective set...nor do I want to start collecting if the effects are going to be inconsistent. I think I'll be waiting for the release of Season 2, or at least some more Season 1 / Season 2 comparison shots before I lay down any money.

I had such high hopes that the mistakes and inconsistencies of TOSR would not be an issue with this set. I hope they get their act together on this.

You're really gonna let this relatively minor screw up in the grand scheme of things deter you from buying the season?

I'm not. Besides I have Farpoint on the sampler disc.

 

[jefferiestubes8]

2 reviews

I dont think this is accurate:

The special effects needed to be reshot entirely, but the decision was made use the original elements. Models of spaceships and such were also dragged out of storage and carefully framed to match the original footage.

http://www.themortonreport.com/ente...iew-star-trek-the-next-generation-season-one/

There is a good photo of all the packaging including the discs here:
http://hamptonroads.com.nyud.net/2012/07/new-‘star-trek-tng’-gives-fans-royal-hd-treatment

 

[cbspock]

The effects shots as explained in the documentary I saw last night at the theatre presentation for TNG HD, are the original film elements from the 80s. They recomposed them on film. When things couldn't be found or were missing...they used a digital Enterprise to recreate the shot. Items that didn't have film elements..like transporters, phasers, etc since these were added when composited on video were added in using CGI.


-Chris

 

[Sho]

^ That's much more accurate, but also slightly incorrect.

What they did for the space shots is to take the original film negatives of when they shot the models, digitize them (i.e. scan them into files on the computer) and composite them digitally.

This is also partially true for the transporter effect: The swirlies are a photographic element they had a negative for which they could digitize. But combining that with the digitized live action footage then was done digitally on the computer.

Some things however were created digitally rather than photographically even back then, like the phasers, so those had to be redone from scratch digitally.

 

[Timo47]

Hmm possibly, but im moreso referring to some of the screenshots that have been released thus far. For example, the shot of the Enterprise approaching Minos in "Arsenal of Freedom" is terrific, and shows a great improvement in not only the Enterprise and the planet itself. Compare that to the shot of the Enterprise in orbit of a planet in the season 2 trailer and the difference is staggering, well to me at least anyway.

That shot was from the Pilot (done by ILM), I am assuming you are then comparing it to the Enterprise planet flyby used in "the Child", which is work done by the "Post Group". ILM had much more time to plan out shots, then what the Post Group could (for the most part), but I would also not just assume based on caps without seeing what standard and compression was used for the caps.

Just off the various caps we have seen from TrekCore, to others sites, to reviews, to fans posting here, you can see a difference in some of the footage.

And also, as I mentioned as the show progressed and the effects teams grew, the style of work done was quite different.

For example, I loved the look of the Child's FX, (at least off the quality we could see) as it seemed to really soak up the blues of the planet, other shots in that season didn't have that same look, the other close one was the shots in the energy vortex (also strong blues) in Unnatural selection.

Now of course it could also be the difference in the fx company doing the transfer, but at this stage its really to early to rule out differences that actually happened when they were filmed originally.

The shot from The Child looks great and really brings out a lot of details that were not visible with the DVD's. To me it looks like a genuine restoration of the original shot and any differences are caused by the way it was shot by the Post Group.

We should also consider that the model may no longer be in the pristine condition from the pilot. I can clearly see dirt marks on the bottom of the saucer!

Edit: If there's one thing that's dissapointing about that shot from The Child, it's the blue planet which looks unchanged and as blurry as on the DVD's.

 

[Rarewolf]

Looks like they took notice of the credit fonts and realized they could do better.

Just to make sure did they update the credits in Encounter at Farpoint too?

It's a pity we can't have an alternate angle of all the footage without captions at all. Since they had to relocate it anyway.

Always wondered how long they kept uncaptioned copies - the 2nd half of two part stories loose them in movie format. Some were released several years after airing.

When we get to season 4, should the first disk contain a bonus copy of Best Of Both Worlds part 1, to have it all in one place?