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Why does Vaders suit make him slow and less powerful?

Obi-Wan in the 1977 film and Dooku in the 2002 film are both old, but diametric opposites. Obi-Wan is weakened, but wise and forward thinking, and about to ascend. On the other hand, Dooku is powerful, but foolish and completely clueless about his own fate. Maybe today's audiences can't handle even that level of sophistication in storytelling, but at least it got in under the wire.
 
Again, you're conflating and confusing the idea of "mass" as weight, or raw physicality.

It's about integrity, the wholeness of body and spirit. Or, if you insist on a mechanistic explanation, cybernetic systems are "dead", and cannot channel the living energy of the Force as live flesh can. It is said that Luke, should he ever learn Force Lightning, could only do it in his off hand (his living hand), which partially supports the notion.
 
Also IIRC, Lucas decreed that lightsabers were super-heavy at that point.

Did he really think two guys fighting like old men with swords would look interesting? Vader fights completely different in the rest of the saga.

Lucas really should have taken a few years off and sat down and planned this shit out before filming ANH. I'm not even talking J. R. R. Tolkien like planning, but keeping simple stuff like lightsaber fighting speeds consistent.:scream:
 
The idea of him think that lightsabers would be really heavy at the time of ANH doesn't pan out though - there's no sign of Luke finding his heavy...
 
Lucas really should have taken a few years off and sat down and planned this shit out before filming ANH. I'm not even talking J. R. R. Tolkien like planning, but keeping simple stuff like lightsaber fighting speeds consistent.:scream:

Why? While making A New Hope, I'm pretty sure no one thought there would be sequels.
 
Lucas really should have taken a few years off and sat down and planned this shit out before filming ANH. I'm not even talking J. R. R. Tolkien like planning, but keeping simple stuff like lightsaber fighting speeds consistent.:scream:

Why? While making A New Hope, I'm pretty sure no one thought there would be sequels.

There was an entire 30+ year plan already in place!!
 
I think the Vader v Obi Wan fight in ANH is suited for the situation a lot better than the craziness of the PT fights or even what Luke gets up to later in the OT. You have two old foes who haven't seen each other for a long time and Vader seems very wary of Obi Wan, for good reason. Obi smashed him 20 years ago and Vader has no idea what Obi is doing there after been gone for so long. As for Obi, he was just biding time so Luke and co could escape, so he just had to keep Vader interested.

Throw in the fact that Star Wars was made on a pretty modest budget and that the entire fight was probably in the smallest area of any of the films. With the bigger budgets of the later OT films we saw the sets grow in size and they were usually over a few levels, which allowed for more choreographed action because of the superior space and terrain.

It is one thing I'm very glad Lucas hasn't changed a lot with his updating of the OT. If he turns it into a flip-a-thon I think you could lose that sense of the canny game Obi Wan was playing.
 
Mass has nothing to do with it, as others have cited the prime example--Yoda. I also think that the somewhat sluggish movement of Vader was partly due to the costume itself. It was a nasty affair to wear, very awkward. It took great skill for the wearer to even make it look somewhat fluid. That's the only plausible explanation as far as I can see. Cybernetic motors can move very quickly, so someone suited up like Vader could actually be faster than human flesh.


A little OT... just watched the game clip for the Old Republic. So is this what the future holds for Star Wars? No more big production movies with live actors? It's going to be all CGI games with simulated actors, or at least full CGI skins for live actors?
 
Obi-Wan in the 1977 film and Dooku in the 2002 film are both old, but diametric opposites. Obi-Wan is weakened, but wise and forward thinking, and about to ascend. On the other hand, Dooku is powerful, but foolish and completely clueless about his own fate. Maybe today's audiences can't handle even that level of sophistication in storytelling, but at least it got in under the wire.


yes sophistication in storytelling is what I think of when I think of the PT.
 
Obi-Wan in the 1977 film and Dooku in the 2002 film are both old, but diametric opposites. Obi-Wan is weakened, but wise and forward thinking, and about to ascend. On the other hand, Dooku is powerful, but foolish and completely clueless about his own fate. Maybe today's audiences can't handle even that level of sophistication in storytelling, but at least it got in under the wire.


yes sophistication in storytelling is what I think of when I think of the PT.

I was damning it with faint praise, reserving my actual praise for the OT. I think the ANH duel works perfectly. If Lucas had made Obi-Wan as energetic as Dooku (incidentally by CGI-ing his face on a stunt double, as he did for Christopher Lee), then distinction between Obi-Wan and Dooku would have been lost.
 
Obi-Wan in the 1977 film and Dooku in the 2002 film are both old, but diametric opposites. Obi-Wan is weakened, but wise and forward thinking, and about to ascend. On the other hand, Dooku is powerful, but foolish and completely clueless about his own fate. Maybe today's audiences can't handle even that level of sophistication in storytelling, but at least it got in under the wire.


yes sophistication in storytelling is what I think of when I think of the PT.

I was damning it with faint praise, reserving my actual praise for the OT. I think the ANH duel works perfectly. If Lucas had made Obi-Wan as energetic as Dooku (incidentally by CGI-ing his face on a stunt double, as he did for Christopher Lee), then distinction between Obi-Wan and Dooku would have been lost.


Ah. Gotcha.
 
Droid doctors can't diagnose or treat basic complications.

Wrong.

The Senator from Naboo agrees with me.

Wrong. You're rewriting Padme's death because you don't like it. Just say you don't like it and leave it at that, there's no need to live in denial.

sonak said:
midichlorians should never have been introduced into SW-they added very little to the PT and contradicted a lot that came before.

They contradicted nothing that came before.

sonak said:
Of course, now you can explain it with the midichlorians

No, you really can't. Vader's midichlorian count in the OT is the same as it was in the PT. In Lucas' various comments regarding Vader's loss of potential, the word midichlorians does not appear.
 
I always thought the lightsaber duels in ESB and ROTJ were fine.

But the duel in ANH between Vader and Kenobi was so bad! It was like two old men fighting in slow motion.
Because that's how it was originally supposed to be, IIRC--a duel between two old men past their prime.

Also IIRC, Lucas decreed that lightsabers were super-heavy at that point.

Lightsabers were super-heavy at that point. They were reflective three-sided spinning things with electric motors in the hilts.
 
I think it's also the sign of a great swordsman to master a style that's both effective and minimizes energy expenditure.. best example would be Mace Windu who's style is not as acrobatic as others but always gets the job done (which is also why i'm so pissed how they depicted the Yoda/Dokuu fight.. absolutely hate the rubber ball style of Yoda in this fight).
I think the illustrative point for Yoda in AOTC is that at this point, we've only seen him in three previous movies as an old, feeble, miniature creature, but that he's capable of more. Yoda is as wise as he is old (nearly 900 years in AOTC), and like Vader doesn't feel the need to move quickly or with flair in his day-to-day operations. But when the need arises, he is surprisingly capable of extreme aerial acrobatics. It was supposed to be a stunning dichotomy to what we were expecting out of the little old guy.

Logistically, due to Yoda's diminutive height, it would be quite necessary for him to jump off walls, or at least into the air, as part of his fighting style. Otherwise, he would be swiping at the feet of his opponents, and that's not exceptionally effective. So it actually makes sense from that standpoint.

I understand what you mean though... why did Lucas see it as necessary that Yoda essentially bounce off the walls like a five year-old who just destroyed a five gallon drum of Kool-aid?

For me, the absolute COOLEST part about that entire fight sequence is the very beginning, when Yoda uses the Force to wield his lightsaber from the hilt. It's only a matter of a few inches distance, but to me it spoke volumes about his abilities. He doesn't even bother to reach for the lightsaber, he makes the saber come to him. (Incidentally, the second coolest part about that entire fight sequence is when he picks up his cane at the end of the fight, after having just performed some Olympic level stunts, and walks off.)
 
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