Why does Vaders suit make him slow and less powerful?

[Lonemagpie]

Vader wasn't slow. He was just never in a hurry. This is the most badass villain in history we're talking about. I think TESB showed us that his force powers were still formidable, if not intact.

This is it.

Vader's originally like what they made a fuss about designing Mace Windu's fighting style to be like - economy of movement. He's so good and so badass that he doesn't *need* to jump around like a loon.

Watch the Luke/Vader duel in ESB, and note that Luke is having to put a lot of effort in, while Vader just blocks and parries with one hand. Not because Vader can't do more, but because that's how far ahead he is. That's what made him scary.

 

[Satyrquaze]

^Also, he was holding back as he (at first) didn't want to hurt Luke. Very Badass.

 

[shivkala]

Only two people were capable of beating Vader one-on-one, the Emperor and Luke. Luke couldn't beat Vader until the very end. On the other hand, the Emperor could always beat Vader, until the very end.

The Emperor would have no interest in letting Vader get any stronger. Yet Vader was already powerful enough to serve the Emperor's ends.

I suspect that a fully matured Anakin could have beaten the Emperor.

In other words, the Emperor gimped Vader on purpose.

This was my original thought and, while I still think the Emperor would be stupid not to somehow use this to keep Vader subservient, the other posts do make some good points about Vader not needing to move fast most of the time. He does move fast when needed, as has been pointed out (such as deflecting Han's blaster shot in ESB).

So, while I'm no longer sure the Emperor's meddling was responsible for Vader seeming to be so slow, I still believe that somehow, someway, Vader's cybernetics were built in such a way as to ensure he could never overpower Palpatine.

 

[BillJ]

OT Vader has the same midichlorian count as PT Anakin.

Source? Because I sure don't remember them mentioning midichlorian counts in the original trilogy.

 

[Derishton]

It isn't total size, maybe, but percentage of your genetic/natural size that's left to you? Yoda is the total of Yoda, but small; Darth Vader is less than half of what Anakin was originally.

I'm not sure I really buy that.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I've always believed (based solely on what was shown on screen, mind you) that it was Vader's suit that absorbed Han's blaster shots, not Force ability. This is because Luke gets a good solid strike on him with his lightsaber during their duel, which has no effect, save the sparks and evidently startling his father. I can explain that only by postulating that Vader's suit is armored. The presence of armor gives the means to absorb the blaster shots, and thereby reduces it to a mere parlor trick, but one which in conjunction with the telekinesis could be, and was, quite disconcerting. That's a really powerful scene when Han shoots at Vader. (Note also that the script makes the point of telling us back on Hoth that there is armor in the SW universe that is "too strong for blasters".)

Clearly, TESB shows that Vader's telekinetic abilities are very advanced.

I think the OP has a point, though, in that there is a gap between General Grievous's construction and Darth Vader's. Nothing on screen is presented to explain anything but the superficial workings of either being as a cybernetic organism, and so nothing is presented which can explain why Vader isn't and never comes to be as agile as Grievous.

To me, the most compelling explanation for why Vader hasn't received further cybernetic enhancement is that it's for the same reason why Vader does the bidding of the Emperor in the first place. The Emperor has broken his spirit and his will to resist. While he remains under the Emperor's spell, Vader will be exactly what the Emperor wants him to be.

I'm sure if Lucas had made the OT today, Vader's cybernetics would have made him be able to move faster than the eye could see and fly around on boot-jets

Yeah, the PT is really so much moar than the OT, isn't it.

 

[Set Harth]

OT Vader has the same midichlorian count as PT Anakin.

Source? Because I sure don't remember them mentioning midichlorian counts in the original trilogy.

You also don't remember them being a cell concentration in the PT, nor do you remember the fact that Anakin's count was determined by a blood test.

I've always believed (based solely on what was shown on screen, mind you) that it was Vader's suit that absorbed Han's blaster shots, not Force ability.

Plagueis does the same trick without a magic glove.

 

[Mr Light]

Midi-chlorians do not create Force ability, they are merely a sign of it. The M-Cs are attracted to life, moreso to someone strong in the Force.

When they speak of a M-C count, I believe they are speaking of the concentration in the body, and not the total number of M-Cs in the body. So if Anakin had an equal M-C count as Yoda, that doesn't mean that they both have one billion M-Cs in their body. It means their bodies have the same ratio of M-Cs to body mass.

 

[Electric Coleslaw]

Forget the midi-cholorians bullshit. No one screwed with Vader for 30 years. How was he less powerful? The only one who stood a chance against him was his own son.

The only thing that really limited his power was the emperor himself. That relationship to me is more interesting topic than his attire.

 

[Jono]

The biggest sign that the Emperor was holding Vader back is that he let his guard have red armour but Vader had to have black and as everyone knows the red ones go faster.

As for Vader compared to Grievous, given Grievous is a mundane the only way he can counter highly trained Force users is to be as fast, if not faster than they are, making agility and speed far more important to his survival. As others have pointed out Vader is a very powerful force user, so his suit giving him an edge isn't as critical since the Force provides enough of one already. The most important thing his suit did (apart from keep him alive) was to be a symbol of intimidation and supreme Imperial power.

 

[Satyrquaze]

I've always believed (based solely on what was shown on screen, mind you) that it was Vader's suit that absorbed Han's blaster shots, not Force ability.

Plagueis does the same trick without a magic glove.

Indeed, in every SW RPG/or Lit I've read, it's considered a Force ability.

 

[BillJ]

OT Vader has the same midichlorian count as PT Anakin.

Source? Because I sure don't remember them mentioning midichlorian counts in the original trilogy.

You also don't remember them being a cell concentration in the PT, nor do you remember the fact that Anakin's count was determined by a blood test.

I'll let my original statement sink in before responding...

 

[Mr Silver]

Has it not been written into Star Wars canon, several times that Vader adjusted his lightsaber combat style to work with the suit?

He's got no biological arms or legs and his suit presumably weighs several hundred pounds, which compromises his speed greatly. IIRC, Vader's adjusted lightsaber combat style is based upon brute force and attacking a larger area (using his cybernetically-enhanced strength). He's also mastered the art of the lightsaber throw which we have to assume is at partially dependent on the force. This would mean that Vader does indeed augment his combat techniques with the force.

So why is he slow? I guess we could say that it's because he doesn't need to be fast and his larger frame coupled with the mechanical components of his suit make him an easier target if he didn't make certain modifications to his combat style.

 

[DWF]

I love the idea that being slow and dare I say forceful makes Vader appear more powerful onscreen, Plus what's left of his body is on life support, I'm sure that rushing around will make thngs worse for him. Battling Luke and taking the Emperor's force lightning wore him out.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I've always believed (based solely on what was shown on screen, mind you) that it was Vader's suit that absorbed Han's blaster shots, not Force ability.

Plagueis does the same trick without a magic glove.

Indeed, in every SW RPG/or Lit I've read, it's considered a Force ability.

Doesn't that make you wonder why the Jedi are so big on blocking blaster bolts with their lightsabers? From what we know on screen, if it is a Force ability then it's one exhibited by no Jedi we ever saw.

I mean, I get that we saw Force lightning absorbed by lightsabers and by Yoda unaided, but that was Yoda, man, not just a knight or other lesser master.

But I never saw Mace Windu or any other Jedi ever block a blaster with their hand on screen. I saw Mace always blocking blaster bolts with his saber. I even saw a Jedi master get shot by Jango Fett's blaster in AOTC (a quick search reveals it's Coleman Trebor).

We only have one sample of blaster blocking in the films. That's by Darth Vader, we know he's more machine than man, so that's not the best sample to extrapolate from, especially given everything else. This is yet another aspect of the EU that doesn't square with the films.

Having Darth Tyranus block a stray shot in AOTC with his naked hand would have been the perfect opportunity to show us that it's a Force ability, though.

---

Why doesn't Luke's lightsaber hurt Vader in TESB?

 

[FPAlpha]

Realistically speaking Vader's slow style just makes him seem even more dangerous.. it's especially evident in the comparison between Luke and Vader when they fight on Bespin. Luke has to put in everything he has and strains to keep up and not get his head chopped off while Vader calmly amd methodically drives him back.

I think it's also the sign of a great swordsman to master a style that's both effective and minimizes energy expenditure.. best example would be Mace Windu who's style is not as acrobatic as others but always gets the job done (which is also why i'm so pissed how they depicted the Yoda/Dokuu fight.. absolutely hate the rubber ball style of Yoda in this fight).

Real world reason would most likely just be different filming and visual styles between the 70s and today.. today's audience would have been mightily bored by the comparable static fighting style of the original movie Jedi.

 

[Set Harth]

Source? Because I sure don't remember them mentioning midichlorian counts in the original trilogy.

You also don't remember them being a cell concentration in the PT, nor do you remember the fact that Anakin's count was determined by a blood test.

I'll let my original statement sink in before responding...

Take all the time you need.

 

[JoeZhang]

Well you will have to remind me as well - because like BillJ, I can remember no reference to midcholrian counts in the original trilogy.

 

[Satyrquaze]

Indeed, in every SW RPG/or Lit I've read, it's considered a Force ability.

Doesn't that make you wonder why the Jedi are so big on blocking blaster bolts with their lightsabers? From what we know on screen, if it is a Force ability then it's one exhibited by no Jedi we ever saw.

I never said it was an easy ability to attain...

I mean, I get that we saw Force lightning absorbed by lightsabers and by Yoda unaided, but that was Yoda, man, not just a knight or other lesser master.

There is footage of a future head of the Jedi Order blocking and holding a lightsaber attack with her bare hand in one of the SWTOR trailers, but then it's...

Spoiler: Satele Shan

Darth Revan's possible direct descendant

so take that for what it's worth.

But I never saw Mace Windu or any other Jedi ever block a blaster with their hand on screen. I saw Mace always blocking blaster bolts with his saber. I even saw a Jedi master get shot by Jango Fett's blaster in AOTC (a quick search reveals it's Coleman Trebor).

I don't think its a fair comparison between Coleman Trebor and Darth Vader or Jango Fett and Han Solo. But, I fully agree that if Mace Windu was a badass as we were led to believe it would have been nice to see him block a blaster bolt without igniting his lightsaber.

We only have one sample of blaster blocking in the films. That's by Darth Vader, we know he's more machine than man, so that's not the best sample to extrapolate from, especially given everything else. This is yet another aspect of the EU that doesn't square with the films.

Having Darth Tyranus block a stray shot in AOTC with his naked hand would have been the perfect opportunity to show us that it's a Force ability, though.

Indeed.

---

Why doesn't Luke's lightsaber hurt Vader in TESB?

Why does Luke turn around and cut right through Vader's arm in the next film? The shoulder was better armored than his arm? Why did vader bother to block Han's blaster bolts with his hand in ESB when his chest-armor could likely take the hit(s)?

 

[CorporalCaptain]

That's pretty fair.

This is all speculative, but I guess my answer is that blaster resistant doesn't mean blaster invulnerable; lightsaber resistant doesn't mean lightsaber invulnerable.

Even though the AT-AT's had armor "too strong for blasters", speeders blew up a fallen AT-AT with - wait for it- blaster fire. Now why was that? Did the armor crack when the AT-AT fell down? That's my theory.

Why do the stormtroopers bother to wear armor at all? My fanwank is that stormtrooper armor is in fact blaster resistant, but it forces a blaster to be set at a sufficiently high level to penetrate it, which is beyond certain blasters and which limits the number of shots a power pack can hold more severely than shooting someone completely unprotected.

Perhaps not all of Vader's suit are equally well protected. Perhaps not all lightsaber strikes are equally forceful; there's some evidence of that.

Anyhoo.