The OFFICIAL STNG-R general discussion thread!

[Rarewolf]

I wouldn't mind small fixes here and there, but for the most part the shots in DS9 were already dynamic and interesting enough.

I think the problem with remaking the CGI is the battles were too dynamic! Follow a single a ship from one side of the battle to the other. Count how many other ships there are on screen at the same time. Harder to remake matching the original than make a new one.

 

[JarodRussell]

I wouldn't mind small fixes here and there, but for the most part the shots in DS9 were already dynamic and interesting enough.

I think the problem with remaking the CGI is the battles were too dynamic! Follow a single a ship from one side of the battle to the other. Count how many other ships there are on screen at the same time. Harder to remake matching the original than make a new one.

If they were good, they kept the scene and object files, could transfer them to the updated 3D applications and re-render. They would not have to recreate the scenes from scratch.

 

[Tosk]

^No chance. (IMO)

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

If they were good, they kept the scene and object files, could transfer them to the updated 3D applications and re-render. They would not have to recreate the scenes from scratch.

I think I've read (please feel free to correct me, anyone!) that the scenes are kept by the effects companies, and some of them aren't around anymore which means at least some of those files could be gone forever.

 

[MacLeod]

I wouldn't mind small fixes here and there, but for the most part the shots in DS9 were already dynamic and interesting enough.

But in terms of the space battles, you can notice when they recylced footage. A pass of a ship as it flies by is easier to swallow, then several engagements in battles playing out exactly the same way.

 

[Sho]

Regarding recreating CG scenes for DS9: It's certainly not impossible to get some mileage out of old files if they are still present, nor is it impossible that they still are. The fact that Pixar was able to go back to files created around 1992-95, place additional cameras and re-render Toy Story for a 3D release proves that it is possible to do a great job at archiving in this space. And CG effects for Star Trek were created using mostly off-the-shelf packages, the file formats of which are usually well enough understood to still read or convert them today (the backward compatibility story certainly isn't quite as good as with RenderMan, but still, it's in the realm of the doable).

However, one needs to be clear about what it is they could hope to reuse: Mostly scene staging and animation. The original models and textures are definitely way too low resolution to be useful for a HD render. They would still be very useful reference material in making faithful new models to be sure, but they couldn't be used outright. That said, access to staging and animation data would already save them tons of manual labor.

Sadly, many of the VFX companies involved with making the CG effects back then have since went out of business, however, so personally my hope that intact archives still exist is very low. Then again, we once thought largely the same about the TNG negatives, so who knows.

 

[JarodRussell]

However, one needs to be clear about what it is they could hope to reuse: Mostly scene staging and animation. The original models and textures are definitely way too low resolution to be useful for a HD render. They would still be very useful reference material in making faithful new models to be sure, but they couldn't be used outright. That said, access to staging and animation data would already save them tons of manual labor.

If the scene files are intact, you can simply replace the old objects and textures with new ones.

And guys like Tobias Richter already have most of the ships seen in Trek recreated in ultra high quality.

 

[Sho]

Well, it's not quite as easy as just dropping in Tobias' models and hitting the render button - his models, good as they are, would probably still need some work to work in these kinds of shots and capture the original look, and to look consistent next to each other. They'd also need to redo various particle effects with higher-density emitters and higher-res plates of physical elements like fires and explosions, etc etc.

Another thing is that you shouldn't overestimate the quality of the original scene files even if they do still exist either. Quite often CG scenes aren't done "all in camera", but e.g. foreground and background elements are lighted and rendered separately and then combined afterwards to cut down on render times. So I suspect you quite frequently have a mode of working where the scene is staged roughly with all objects in there to work out their relative motion, and then you concentrate on getting the final render of one layer, and then you concentrate on the next layer, etc. ... and in this step-wise way of working you might throw away stuff from the already-done layers to save on working set memory or whatever. And these file formats rarely have revisioning built-in, nor was it common to use asset management with version control in the 90s. So even archived scene files may still be quite crappy and incomplete.

The take-away here is that this work was done under tight time constraints, and the goal was to get the shot in the can, not to archive the assets, sadly.

But still, every little bit helps cut down on having to recreate things manually from scratch.

 

[jefferiestubes8]

Season 1 Blu-ray Review

there are 4 new screencaps here too.

Video:

flesh tones suffer slightly from pushing a bit too much towards a reddish look in certain spots and blacks occasionally wash out a tad

but uniforms look the correct red color.

Episodic Promos – Each disc has the promo spots for each episode included,

in standard definition.

The Beginning (1.33:1; SD; 00:18:01) – This archival behind the scened featurette shows the production of the first season of The Next Generation and features interviews with Gene Roddenbery.

Stardate Revisited: The Origin of Star Trek: The Next Generation (1.78:1; 1080p/24*)

This featurette also includes footage of Gene Roddenberry.:

I was wondering if they would and am glad it does. Hopefully they went back to his 16mm film interviews and relecine'd them in HD...

Star Trek: The Next Generation — Season One Blu-ray Review
http://www.blu-raydefinition.com/re...ext-generation-season-one-blu-ray-review.html

 

[Flake]

IMHO the shot in WNMHGB is the 2ft model and not CGI

 

[BillJ]

Re: Season 1 Blu-ray Review

Star Trek: The Next Generation — Season One Blu-ray Review
http://www.blu-raydefinition.com/re...ext-generation-season-one-blu-ray-review.html

You can tell the reviewer isn't really familiar with the series. 21st century? James T. Riker? James Stewart?

 

[mswood]

There are a lot more then 4 new shots on that review (or I have missed a ton of images).

 

[TheSeeker]

You're right! I didn't bother to look at the review until you mentioned it so I never saw them.

 

[mswood]

My God I can't wait to see the Child (seriously awful episode, but one of the best lensed episodes of TNG,). The shot of the shuttle leaving the Enterprise, the Excelsior class ship, and the great footage Bowman got for the whole the episode, from a great, great opening bridge shot, to the night scenes with Deanna to all the scenes of ten forward.

Also highly looking forward to Time Squared and average (maybe a little below average, all of course persona opinion), but the episode has up to that point some of the most beautiful space shots that TNG had yet to create, can not wait to see what they look like now.

Of course there are episodes I love, or really like that I am really eager to see, but I am most looking forward to these two episodes that aren't classic.

Kind of like how I knew because Pilots are filmed with more care, that Encounter would show a huge improvement in visual production (all aspects, not just fx), over the typical episode. And I in general don't like that episode at all.

 

[Dick_Valentine]

Now of course the next question in relation to DSN if it was remastered for HD. Most of the CGI effects would have to be replaced. So would we want :-

a.>The SFX shots done to match the original broadcast version
b.>Instead of using recycled footage in later epsiodes would we want all new footage.

I'd definitely want them to remove the "clipshow" element of the final episode.
Even the "new" bits of that battle, such as the Excelsior getting hit from an energy beam from above, was a re-use of a background element from Tears of the Prophets.
There were a couple of other times where that happened too, you could tell they wanted the final battle to be the most epic of all but it felt like they were trying to achieve this on about a third of the money of Sacrifice of Angels or Tears of the Prophets

And even in the series 5 finale there's a re-use of the Jem-Hadar ship exploding from "The Search" too, I'd love to see new scenes in these places so the whole experience is made slightly less cheap.

I know, I know, I won't get what I want, but it'd be nice!
(And judging from all the debate on this above, possibly even EASIER than a blind recreation of what went before...)

Plus of course they could fix the Defiant in WYLB so it says NCC-74205-A

I'd sooner it say NCC-75633, the Enterprise, due to its fame should be the only ship to keep its registry.

There's nothing that makes a ship more famous (aside from being the signature vessel of a TV series or movie ) than warfare, particularly if that's what it was designed for in the first place.

The Defiant easily earnt its promotion to -A status and I can only hope that continued on through the next generation of starfleet "escort" vessels as a tribute to Sisko as much as anything else.

 

[mswood]

Really the only fx that I would like worked with, and I think really need it isn't on the CGi episodes (not that its perfect.)

But its the Die Is Cast and Way of the Warrior which has some awesome model work but in the background of many of those shots are non professional grade models that were used as filler. Things like model kits, and Hallmark ornaments. Things that have no real motion, that suck the life out of otherwise very strong shots.

Done because model fx could not ever hope to do those larger group shots on a standard tv schedule or budget.

I really worry about how the quality of those shots will hold up on much larger screens where the details really show. Normally thats a great thing, but in some cases its not, this is one of the cases where I fear it would be a bad thing.

I do admit that I did hate to see so many specifically recycled battle shots in the finale episode. They aren't bad shots (not at all), but such clear specific copies of non general flybys really is jarring to people who do really watch the shows.

 

[Sho]

I'm really surprised there's no YouTube upload of the SDCC panel yet ...

 

[trekker670]

^ There is, I believe TrekCore posted it a couple pages back. It's also on their TNG-HD site.

 

[Sho]

^ No, that was an interview done in some sort of backroom at SDCC, but not their stage panel (in fact the interviewer even mentions not having attended the panel at one point).

 

[BillJ]

Does anyone know if there will be any differences between the Encounter at Farpoint in the sampler and the one that will be on the season one set?