Is Apple a cult?
- Thread starter Yminale
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After about five computers over the years, the only Apple products I've used are iPods. I have relatives that are Apple Cultists, but I'm too set in my cynical PC ways to change. 
In reality the company exploited the fandom of its salespeople by paying absolute minimum wage (maybe enough to get by for an early 20s college dropout but nowhere near enough later on to live well or support a family), demanding long working hours and additional effort such as organizing events and such but you got to be at the centre, right?
Yeah because the average yearly income of $25,000 grand for general sales person is what a minimum wage employee earns.
Apple pay is better then most major electronics or computer company.
But understand this retail isn't a place, nor has it been for a long time to make a good living.
All industries have people who make little to those who make a lot.
Do you complain that Exxon doesn't pay its cashiers enough when you buy gas at their stations? A company which has a had a much longer history of being one of the most profitable companies on earth, Apple is fairly new to that.
After all how much should sales staff actually earn? And is it that specific person that is bringing in the sales, or our the products selling themselves.
For example in one of the persons who is interviewed by the NY Times, talks about having sales of half a million over three months and feels that his $11.25 an hour doesn't reflect what he brings to the company.
As a cashier (when I was younger) at a gas station I did typically 10,000 to 18,000 in fuel sales each day. Easily bringing in more sales then the apple employee. Yet besides helping a few clueless customers, the gas really sold itself.
Now if I go to Fries Electronics, and a sales person gets me to consider or purchase something out of their vast possible selection (tens of thousands of different pieces of electronic equipment) that have a good chance of getting me to purchase something I didn't come in for.
How many people going into an apple store are going in already aware, informed and knowing what items they sale and what they are interested in?
Is simply helping someone who already knows what they want 10%, 20%, 30%, 40%, 50%, 60%, 70%, ect, ect of their sales?
Because just being busy doesn't mean you should earn a lot. In fact just being busy is often the realm of lower paid jobs. Now bringing in particular skill sets, that aren't common is what should bring in higher revenue.
While that certainly would include some sales personal, it certainly wouldn't be all sales clerks.
My computers use started with a commodore (that I never used), then went to PC's (hate that term because Macs are absolutely PC's). In 1992 I moved in with someone who used Macs, so I started using theirs at home, with my windows based machine also at home and at work. By the year 2000. I never wanted to use a windows based PC ever again (though we still got them, my boyfriend programs and does computer repairs, so he always has both windows and Mac based machines), still hate using my windows based machine at work. But until I get to a position that's salary I don't get a say in the operating system I get.After about five computers over the years, the only Apple products I've used are iPods. I have relatives that are Apple Cultists, but I'm too set in my cynical PC ways to change.
Between me and my life partner, we have only had one apple device not last at least 5 years (he got the flaming laptop, which was recalled, so its even possible that would have lasted five years, but who knows). Of course any device we have bought in the last 5 years does have the possibility of failure before 5 years pass up, but...
But in perspective, the only windows based machines I have had that have made it five years were work computers with an IT person who helped restore them and keep them running as long as possible. None of my own have survived long, the longest was an HP laptop that I had in 2005 and gave to my Dad in 2007, it died about a year later. The shortest was a netbook, that lasted three frigging weeks (model was a total, and complete piece of crap). Returned for replacement, it died after two or three months, replaced again and died before the year was up (I had given that to my niece).
The only electronics device I had worse was the X-Box 360 (love the games, hated the first two years of consules, and between three consules I bought had 20 times they were returned for repair). Finally have had one last for 8 months so far.
I beg your pardon? Lifestyle? What lifestyle? I was born this way.
In reality the company exploited the fandom of its salespeople by paying absolute minimum wage (maybe enough to get by for an early 20s college dropout but nowhere near enough later on to live well or support a family), demanding long working hours and additional effort such as organizing events and such but you got to be at the centre, right?
Yeah because the average yearly income of $25,000 grand for general sales person is what a minimum wage employee earns.
Apple pay is better then most major electronics or computer company.
But understand this retail isn't a place, nor has it been for a long time to make a good living.
All industries have people who make little to those who make a lot.
Do you complain that Exxon doesn't pay its cashiers enough when you buy gas at their stations? A company which has a had a much longer history of being one of the most profitable companies on earth, Apple is fairly new to that.
After all how much should sales staff actually earn? And is it that specific person that is bringing in the sales, or our the products selling themselves.
For example in one of the persons who is interviewed by the NY Times, talks about having sales of half a million over three months and feels that his $11.25 an hour doesn't reflect what he brings to the company.
As a cashier (when I was younger) at a gas station I did typically 10,000 to 18,000 in fuel sales each day. Easily bringing in more sales then the apple employee. Yet besides helping a few clueless customers, the gas really sold itself.
Now if I go to Fries Electronics, and a sales person gets me to consider or purchase something out of their vast possible selection (tens of thousands of different pieces of electronic equipment) that have a good chance of getting me to purchase something I didn't come in for.
How many people going into an apple store are going in already aware, informed and knowing what items they sale and what they are interested in?
Is simply helping someone who already knows what they want 10%, 20%, 30%, 40%, 50%, 60%, 70%, ect, ect of their sales?
Because just being busy doesn't mean you should earn a lot. In fact just being busy is often the realm of lower paid jobs. Now bringing in particular skill sets, that aren't common is what should bring in higher revenue.
While that certainly would include some sales personal, it certainly wouldn't be all sales clerks.
It's not about what a person earns vs. what the sales they have.. there'll always be a huge disparity and nobody is disputing that.
What i meant is that such companies willingly exploit their workers by demading additional duties and getting away with it by either sugarcoating it (in my example they could buy miniatures by weight which was a huge saving and cost the company pennies) or justifying it with the glamor of working for THE company. For many this is enough.. to have that logo on their shirt and have the accesscard with the company stamp on it.
Any other, less glamorous, company couldn't afford such a stance or their employers would leave even faster (or when word gets around would only receive applications of the really desperate and many times not so well suited). Apple doesn't have that problem.. their products are selling like hot cakes and there's endless hordes of fanboys.
^^^ They're stock prices are in a world of their own as well. Shit, if I had some spare cash back in '96, I'd be writing this post from a private beach on the Mediterranean. 
I don't get the attitude of those people. "The new iPhone is out, I MUST get it!" Is the old one you got barely a year ago broken?
That's why Apple is so damn successful.. they've managed to excite their customers.
Their products are good.. no question but they have managed to form almost a mythology around their products where people are camping in front of the stores just so they can be amongst the first to get the new i and be able to brag about it (which in reality is all there is to it.. being the centre somewhere just because you have the latest i product before anyone else in your circle of friends/colleagues/family).
Their products are good.. no question but they have managed to form almost a mythology around their products where people are camping in front of the stores just so they can be amongst the first to get the new i and be able to brag about it (which in reality is all there is to it.. being the centre somewhere just because you have the latest i product before anyone else in your circle of friends/colleagues/family).
What Apple has done successfully is take what is essentially commodity technology (music players, computers, etc.) and turn them into fashion statements and status symbols. It's what they do better than basically any other technology company: they've made a distinctive brand and convinced people that they need it.
And the products are durable and they work. With out those two things, I think Apple's fortunes would've soured long ago.
Yeah because Apple is the only company this happens with. I have seen in happen with both major releases of the X-Box, of a couple releases of Windows, of the Playstation, of the WI, or the a few forms of Nintendo. Nor is this behavior limited to electronics. My town has had people lining up to purchase the latest version of the Ford Focus (the Ford Focus for Christ sake), at midnight when they first arrived.
Let alone the wave of people who camp out to be the first person to buy copies of various games and various software. First to buy music, first to get the latest fashion, or release from an artist (of whatever type of art).
I have bought many apple product, yet not once did I want to buy them because I thought they were stylist, or had a cool factor to them. I was buying apple when it was going under, because I liked their stuff generally better then the windows based units I had or were forced to use.
Now of course there are always (in any sales item) going to be a few people who buy things for stupid reasons (of which status would absolutely qualify in my book), but they are by far a very, very, very small minority of a companies customer base.
Or how many times have you (or others reading) pushed to go see a movie opening night, or for the first midnight showing?
It isn't like movies only shows for one day and then disappear, almost all releases last two weeks There a few places due to size that this doesn't apply to).
In fact I beat every one here at some point in their life has purchased something on its first day of sale. Or waited in line for something that if they waited a day or a few days that they wouldn't have had to wait to get.
But if it's Apple it's somehow different, and worth bringing forth. Generally not as a compliment, but more as somehow questioning the reasoning of a companies customer base.
FPAlpha
I have never worked for a company that didn't do the things you mentioned above. From beginning level employment at Fast Food, and convenience stores, to work as a teacher, to work as a store manager, to work as an accountant.
Most have had company lingo to make jobs and tasks sound better, to make their products (or the service I was providing) sound better, and every one of them have stipulated we weren't to discuss these things outside of work. From jobs that paid $3:85 to jobs that paid $80,000 a year. Each and everyone of them have done what Apple is accused of doing in one form or another.
For example my current job for a new hire, brings the full office together for a meet and great, and then we take the new hire out to lunch. Basically a form of trying to say Hi, were a great place to work, you are so going to want to stay here. I feel stupid every time we do it. We sing to each person on their birthdays (also hate this).
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Yeah when I was like 11. I reserved a copy of Pokemon Gold. But I'm an adult now.
I'll admit I'm definitely weird compared to the population of consumerist sheep. I grew up and still live in a poor urban neighborhood, and everyday I see idiots who are still living projects and most likely collecting welfare and food stamps, rockin a brand new pair of Jordans and an iPhone.
I think for most people, and absolutely not counting just children, would be the watching of a movie on opening day.
Generally the busiest day for most films, yet most films run for weeks, many for months.
This is done by millions of people each and every year. Yet there is no real social stigma attached to it. And its the same basic thing, and I would be surprised if you as an adult ahving done this at least once. By it a film on opening day, an album on the first day of release, a video the first day its on sale, a comic or a book the first day its available.
The only media this really makes sense for is something thats news based. Where you are going to want the most up to date information. But most entertainment doesn't qualify.
Generally the busiest day for most films, yet most films run for weeks, many for months.
This is done by millions of people each and every year. Yet there is no real social stigma attached to it. And its the same basic thing, and I would be surprised if you as an adult ahving done this at least once. By it a film on opening day, an album on the first day of release, a video the first day its on sale, a comic or a book the first day its available.
The only media this really makes sense for is something thats news based. Where you are going to want the most up to date information. But most entertainment doesn't qualify.
Yeah I might be the only person in the world that hasn't seen The Avengers, I haven't been to the cinema in 4 years, since I was 19. I mostly download obscure old films. Like i said, I recognize I'm the weird one.
And I ignore the news too, since it's all corporate propaganda.
And I ignore the news too, since it's all corporate propaganda.
And the products are durable and they work. With out those two things, I think Apple's fortunes would've soured long ago.
The idea Apple products being higher quality is largely a myth. They have R&D and manufacturing snafus about as often as anyone else. They do excel in user design, though.
Why do you hate capitalism?
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