Clothing from other places (not cosplay)

[Nerys Ghemor]

This may sound like a weird question, but I was wondering...who here likes and perhaps even owns clothing from other countries and cultures besides your own? What are your favorites? What do you own and wear?

Or would wearing such clothing be something you might consider inappropriate or disrespectful to someone else's culture?

(Please note that cosplay does not count for this question.)

 

[Deranged Nasat]

Is this related to that nice Indian piece you were planning on buying?

I don't think anyone reasonable would think it inappropriate. I think I get what you might be saying regarding your concerns in that regard; I assume you're considering that it might represent an inadvertent callous pilfering of other people's cultural identity. Maybe you're concerned that it might come across as having shades of a patronizing quasi-colonialist attitude, expressing an interest in the simple aesthetics of something that has significance on far deeper levels to other people. Reducing their culture to a bouffet, "ooh, don't they make nice clothes", without necessarily showing regard for the culture in general? Appropriating part of their identity for selfish reasons? If that is the case, I think you're being overly cautious; I doubt very much that anyone would take offence. If you don't mind me saying so, you do have a tendency to be very careful about other people's feelings, to the extent that (from most people's point of view) you might be said to overthink these things . (I remember your thread about little person etiquette). I'm pretty sure that most people's judgement on seeing someone in clothes not of their culture would just think "oh, she likes that sort of clothing", and not give it another thought.

From a more cynical point of view, seeing that there's a market for their traditional clothing outside the home culture will surely please those with the glint of money in their eyes.

For what it's worth, I doubt anyone will see it as disrespectful, instead they'll probably be inclined to see it for what it is: a harmless interest in a certain style of clothing that's caught your eye. If people saw you wearing something not native to your culture the typical response, I'd imagine, would be simple curiosity if it raised any notice at all. If you wanted to, I suppose you could do a bit of research into the traditional use of whatever type of clothing you're buying (I'm guessing you'll probably do that anyway).

 

[Tora Ziyal]

Not exactly clothing, but...

I often wear Native American jewelry. I've never gotten negative vibes from anyone, Native or not, for doing so.

 

[Holdfast]

There's a broad spectrum here.

I mean, there are a myriad of clothing items that either subtly or overtly borrow from other cultures for ornamentation, detail and cut. That's just part and parcel of the natural melting pot of garment innovation. It's more common in ladies styles than men's but occurs in both.

The point at which it stops being a "foreign" pattern and becomes domestic can be difficult to identify especially if the detail is relatively minor. Also, if the overall look is coherent and consistent with your own personal identity/image, is the item really foreign any more?

For example, if I wear a gingham shirt or seersucker jacket in summer, am I really wearing Indian subcontinent items? The cloth or colour inspirations are from that part of the world, but the tailoring is Western and the overall garment is a fusion with its own unique history of use.

However, a full-scale appropriation of someone's national dress would be quite another matter. For example, National Dress is often used as an acceptable equivalent to our own formalwear, so it carries certain connotations of cultural identity and formality. In some ways it would be like wearing a morning suit for day-to-day work; anachronistically formal and bizarre.

 

[thestrangequark]

This is actually a topic my sister and I have discussed at length several times over the past couple of years, ever since Native American styles became super trendy. It can actually be a difficult issue, and I'm not quite sure where I stand on it yet. The point Holdfast made, that there is a difference between appropriating another culture's dress and borrowing or adopting certain aspects of it, is a very important one, especially when it comes to the moral question the OP poses. It's also a difficult distinction to navigate.

I bought a very casual salwar kameez when I was in Mumbai, and I wear the top with jeans or leggings all the time. When I bought it, the (very sweet) shop owner warned me not to wear the pants alone, because that would be like wearing my underwear with nothing over it -- I never wear the pants, actually, because I feel uncomfortably like I'm playing mildly racist dress-up when I put on the whole outfit. I was in a Tibetan shop in the East Village today, where I bought a pair of pants. There were a bunch of beaded bracelets I toyed with for awhile -- some were Buddhist prayer beads, others had Sanskrit on them. I really liked them, but didn't buy -- I'd just feel awkward and wrong wearing them for the sake of fashion, when I'm an American and an atheist. Similarly, my friend is Catholic, and has a beaded bracelet with little portraits of saints on each bead which I've always admired, and which I kind of want to wear, but I probably never will. I have a silk top I bought in Chinatown a few years ago. My best friend, who is Korean, commented, "That looks beautiful on you! I could never wear a shirt like that, though, since I'm Asian." When I think about it rationally, this line I walk seems pretty arbitrary, and almost silly. Still, I feel compelled to walk it, and would feel uncomfortable if I stepped over it, perhaps because of how closely it relates to my own culture (well, part of my culture)...

There was recently a big stink when Urban Outfitters started selling "Navajo panties," and the Navaho Nation responded with a lawsuit. In the past, I've never felt offended, or even given a second thought to a white woman wearing Native American earrings, or a black girl kicking around in moccasins. (I wear NA jewelry often, and I'm very aware of how white I am; other Indians can tell I'm Indian but to everyone else I suppose I just look like another white chick wearing trendy Native jewelry. My little sister makes Native American jewelry -- we are half Native American and she's so fair that she's whiter than most of the white women she sells to.) But in the past few years, as emaciated white chicks started parading down runways in neon warpaint, headbands, and massive feather dresses on their heads, I found my stomach churning at the sight of them. My roommate got an Urban Outfitters catalogue in which practically every other page had a very not Lakota woman in some very Lakota headgear, and emotionally I felt much the same as I do when I see cheap "squaw" and "chief" costumes in the Halloween store -- that is, disgusted.

I guess in the end I'm on the fence...I don't know that any of it matters, but I know what I'm comfortable wearing, and what crosses that line.

 

[Kestra]

I wear American (Western?) clothes the vast majority of the time. I wear Indian clothes to Indian events. Every now and then I'll wear salwar kameez at home on the weekend. Very rarely though. I don't own clothes from any other cultures than I can think of. I've seen plenty of things that look pretty, but wouldn't look right on me or I wouldn't be able to find an occasion to wear them.

I'm not going to lie, it's a little weird for me to see non-Indians wearing Indian clothes. If it's in context, like at an Indian wedding, that's normal enough. It's actually sweet, I think. My in-laws (including my husband's grandparents) all wore Indian clothes at our wedding and they've come to other events in Indian clothes. My mother-in-law looked up how to wear saris on YouTube and wore one to my brother's wedding. She looked stunning, and I thought that was awesome. My husband (not-Indian) wears Indian clothes at events and actually prefers them to suits much of the time.

If I saw someone wearing them on the street, it would weird me out but I wouldn't be offended. I feel pretty in the outfits I get, so why shouldn't someone else? I think a lot of the time it's about what is appropriate. You'd want to make sure you're not wearing something that's really fancy out somewhere casual. Another good way to do it is like tsq said, where you don't wear the full outfit but kind of mix and match things. Otherwise it might come off a bit costume-ish?

 

[iguana_tonante]

I have a few keikogi and hakama I wear when I practice jujutsu: it's required by the rules of the sport, so I don't think much about it.

I also own a Scottish kilt: I bought it when I was in Inverness for holidays. Even if I always wanted one, I felt vaguely uncomfortable choosing the tartan, since I have no affiliation with any Scottish clan.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

I would suggest that thestrangequark's post is highlighting a distinction between deliberate appropriation of cultural identity and simple fluidity between cultures. The people advertising or showcasing the "Navajo panties" and the headbands, etc, are clearly using the cultural origins (or supposed cultural origins) as a selling point, which I imagine would be grating to many, coming across as callous and ignorant. It's making a claim on a national identity it clearly doesn't care for or understand, and has no investment in beyond rummaging for fashion ideas. To those who are invested in the culture, it must be...irritating at best.

I'd think it rather different, though, if one were simply wearing clothing that just happened to be of another culture, or associated with another culture, with no intention of "playing dress-up". In other words, where no claim was made to the culture of origin as being of note or influencing the decision to buy. While I can understand that this in itself might raise objections such as I suggested in my first post - failure to recognise or acknowledge the deeper meanings and traditions behind an article or style of clothing, etc, reducing it to shallow aesthetics, I can't help but feel that's not something we can complain about too much anymore. Treading carefully here, I understand that there might be a perceived cheapening of cultural identity, but that's invariably going to happen in a multi-cultural society. Boundaries are going to become fluid, and people will borrow from each other without necessarily wanting to investigate the origin points in great detail. It's difficult maintaining a stable cultural identity in a multi-cultural context (few people, I imagine, would want exchange and interaction between cultures to transition to a new monoculture, where everyone loses their distinctiveness; people are going to want to negotiate positions from which they can retain distinct cultural identities). I think, though, that as long as you're not identifying culture as a selling point, it's not unreasonable to go with what appeals to you.

Avoid having it look that you're wearing a costume, I guess, but that just raises further questions, doesn't it? Like "how do I ensure it doesn't come across that way?"

I also think, if I may be so bold, that the situation TSQ describes with the native cultures of north america might be more sensitive than many, because the sense of exploitation is going to be, perhaps, particularly strong there. That's not so much multi-culturalism as one culture having been pushed aside and plundered (similar situations will crop up all over, naturally). I suppose that's another point, isn't it; this sort of question has potentially different answers depending on where you are and who's involved.

 

[Tora Ziyal]

Another good way to do it is like tsq said, where you don't wear the full outfit but kind of mix and match things. Otherwise it might come off a bit costume-ish?

That's what I do with my Native American jewelry. I wear one item at a time, either a necklace or a pair of earrings. That's it. And I didn't wear any of it with the fringed leather jacket I used to have. Not trying to look like a wannabe.

 

[thestrangequark]

I agree with much of what Daranged Nasat is saying. I think it's a wonderful thing that people of different cultures can share in eachothers' fashions, traditions, foods, etc. I would warn, though, that there are a lot of people who find the appropriation of their culture's style very offensive (and here, again, the line between adoption/borrowing/taking inspiration from a culture and appropriation can be blurry). Here is a blog that frequently discusses the issue. I do agree that it is a much more contentious issue with respect to Native Americans, because there is still so much culturally acceptable racism against Native Americans in this country. I'm not overly sensitive, and rarely cry "racist", but in a country where I had to explain to my 2nd grade students every year that Native Americans aren't make believe, and that my mother is one, where even major league sports teams can have logos like this:

or this:

Then things like this:

or this:

leave a different taste in one's mouth.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

^ Thank you for the insight, TSQ. I should probably note that the borough I live in (and the city in general) is very multi-cultural and while there are still obvious ethnic divisions in terms of clothing, no one culture is particularly vulnerable to being "harvested" for clothing styles (partly because there are so many cultural groups here now)*. In other words, I might well be underestimating the degree to which this is sensitive issue, due to my own somewhat narrow experience.

But I suppose the whole point of threads like this is that the OP gets multiple perspectives on a question.

* Which is not to say that there aren't racial and cultural tensions or integration issues (there are), just that no one group is particularly subject to the sort of thing you demonstrate in your last post, so wearing another culture's clothing, while still being of note and maybe making a few people a little uncomfortable, is unlikely to provoke any serious concern. At least, if it's not full-on national dress/religious garb, of course.

 

[sojourner]

I don't get any strange looks when I wear my authentic amazonian river tribe loin cloth to the local grocery. In fact, no one looks at me at all.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I had a Neru jacket when I was 9 or 10. And when I worked at a theme park they made us wear lederhosen for Oktoberfest. Though I guess that might count as cosplay.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

It seems like we are all in agreement on two pretty obvious categories of disrespect: causing religious offense by wearing spiritually-significant items that do not reflect your beliefs (definitely an obvious no-no, in my book), and making a pastiche of another culture. What I see in the situations TSQ mentioned is clearly a violation of both: religiously-significant items used in a sacrilegious manner, and caricatures of a race.

After those clear situations, it seems like things get a lot fuzzier...

 

[thestrangequark]

^ Thank you for the insight, TSQ. I should probably note that the borough I live in (and the city in general) is very multi-cultural and while there are still obvious ethnic divisions in terms of clothing, no one culture is particularly vulnerable to being "harvested" for clothing styles (partly because there are so many cultural groups here now)*. In other words, I might well be underestimating the degree to which this is sensitive issue, due to my own somewhat narrow experience.

But I suppose the whole point of threads like this is that the OP gets multiple perspectives on a question.

I live in Brooklyn, which is very multicultural, but, as with most of the East Coast, there aren't many Native Americans left. That's part of the issue: Native Americans are relatively invisible. Brooklyn is also the hub of hipsters, which means the specific trendiness of Native American "inspired" fashion is ubiquitous here, but the trend is definitely national and mainstream at this point: the fourth image I posted was from a collection of white people in NA headdresses at Coachella. Like I said, I don't think it's a huge deal...and the line is blurry, especially in a country like America where there are so many people with mixed backgrounds. That people should have to confine themselves to wearing only the clothing of their culture is ridiculous; I mean, I'm Ojibwe, Makah, Norwegian, French, and English...what would I wear?

You're definitely right about the point being that there are multiple perspectives -- like I said before, I'm not even sure what my position on the issue really is. The racism here is so subtle. It's like porn...you can't define it, but you know it when you see it. To me, a chick wearing beaded earrings she bought from an Indian maker, or Minnetonka moccasins doesn't seem racist, but an Urban Outfitters catalogue showing white girls frolicking in designer sundresses and ceremonial Lakota headgear and war paint, while the vast majority of Indians can't afford new clothes...well, it seems pretty tasteless.

 

[Gaith]

Let the record show that, PC or not, I approve of Katherine Heigl in a sari for pretty much any occasion, with the possible exceptions of executions and funerals:

​

 

[Count Zero]

I had a Neru jacket when I was 9 or 10. And when I worked at a theme park they made us wear lederhosen for Oktoberfest. Though I guess that might count as cosplay.

If it's any consolation to you, Bavarians are usually not offended when non-Bavarians wear Lederhosen. On the contrary, they're very proud of their culture (such as it is) and like it if people try to assimilate into it to some degree.

 

[Nerys Myk]

My actual consolation was seeing my then girlfriend in lederhosen on a daily basis.

 

[ancientone51]

Fascinating thread> Lots of very respectful, well thought out information.

As an older person with a degree in costuming I'd just like to second those who have said, don't look like a costumed character. A touch of something else, a top, bottom, scarf, standout piece of jewelry is fine. Looking like you are in a pageant for National/Cultural Pride is not.

And be sure you are doing it properly. Do not wear a papal hat if you aren't the pope. Even without the other accouterments, it would be very out of place.

Sharing cultures can be fun, but sharing respect first is required.

 

[PKTrekGirl]

I own a few things like hats and jackets that I bought in various countries overseas...but I really don't wear them.

Really, the only thing I have ever worn that has actually raised eyebrows was a beaver hat that I bought here in Alaska - it looks pretty 'rural Alaskan' (the whole thing is beaver, has ear flaps tied back with ties w/beaver pom-poms on the ends, etc) and I bought it originally to wear in Alaska when I would be outdoors for extended periods - shoveling snow, snowmobiling, etc. It is a very warm hat and doesn't raise a single eyebrow here in Anchorage. In fact, by Alaska standards it is pretty 'urban'. I mean, it's not like it has a stuffed wolf head on top or anything (which I have often seen up here).

However, last year in Atlanta (before I knew I'd be moving back here), we got a snow that stuck around for a week. I pulled this hat out during the initial snow 'storm', just for old times sake to walk the dogs.

Bumped into a neighbor who asked (in horror) "What have you got on your HEAD???"

This hat was not from another country...but it may as well have been. Apparently she did not like my Call Of the Wild look.....