Nimoy: TMP Wasn?t Really A Trek Movie

[cbspock]

Star Trek has now turned into good guys vs. bad guys since Star Trek 2. If you watch the series, Star Trek didn't have many villains

Not sure that's entirely true. TOS was full of nefarious sorts up to no good: Dr. Tristan Adams, Roger Korby, Trelane, the Gorn, Khan, Kor, Sylvia in "Catspaw," Redjak (you don't get more villainous than Jack the Ripper!), Mudd, Koloth, the evil Romans in "Bread and Circuses," the assassin in "Journey to Babel," various bad guys in "Private Little War," the evil brains on Triskelion, Sargon and company, Nazis, Captain Ronald Tracy, Gorgon the friendly angel, the sadistic Platonians, "Lord Garth," Dr. Sevrin, Colonel Green, Janice Lester . . . .

And that's not even counting all the misguided, desperate aliens that threatened Kirk and crew in "A Taste of Armageddon," "Wink of an Eye," "Mark of Gideon," "The Cloud Minders," etc. And all the homicidal computers with delusions of grandeur.

Rarely did an episode go by that somebody wasn't capturing the landing party, threatening the Enterprise, and probably killing a few redshirts . . . .

Good times.

There were more to those stories than a Starship battle and phaser fights. It just seems Paramount pushes the battles over the characters. They want the next "Wrath of Khan". The examples you cite, weren't villain's in the "TWOK" sense. They weren't the focus of the story as "the bad guy"


-Chris

 

[22 Stars]

How many times do they interview these guys to say the same old thing? I mean, really. He's said nothing new here that he hasn't said 20 times before.

That doesn't stop most posters here from posting though!

 

[Relayer1]

How many times do they interview these guys to say the same old thing? I mean, really. He's said nothing new here that he hasn't said 20 times before.

That doesn't stop most posters here from posting though!

I've not been a member that long, so it's a first time for most things on here for me...

 

[Greg Cox]

Star Trek has now turned into good guys vs. bad guys since Star Trek 2. If you watch the series, Star Trek didn't have many villains

Not sure that's entirely true. TOS was full of nefarious sorts up to no good: Dr. Tristan Adams, Roger Korby, Trelane, the Gorn, Khan, Kor, Sylvia in "Catspaw," Redjak (you don't get more villainous than Jack the Ripper!), Mudd, Koloth, the evil Romans in "Bread and Circuses," the assassin in "Journey to Babel," various bad guys in "Private Little War," the evil brains on Triskelion, Sargon and company, Nazis, Captain Ronald Tracy, Gorgon the friendly angel, the sadistic Platonians, "Lord Garth," Dr. Sevrin, Colonel Green, Janice Lester . . . .

And that's not even counting all the misguided, desperate aliens that threatened Kirk and crew in "A Taste of Armageddon," "Wink of an Eye," "Mark of Gideon," "The Cloud Minders," etc. And all the homicidal computers with delusions of grandeur.

Rarely did an episode go by that somebody wasn't capturing the landing party, threatening the Enterprise, and probably killing a few redshirts . . . .

Good times.

There were more to those stories than a Starship battle and phaser fights. It just seems Paramount pushes the battles over the characters. They want the next "Wrath of Khan". The examples you cite, weren't villain's in the "TWOK" sense. They weren't the focus of the story as "the bad guy"


-Chris

And yet TOS somehow managed to get a fist-fight into almost every episode! Yes, there was often more to the episodes as well, but let's not forget that TOS had plenty of action-adventure/space opera elements from the beginning. And there was usually some dangerous adversary putting Kirk and the ship in jeopardy . . . .

That's a big part of what made it so fun.

 

[MarsWeeps]

In his place was a young Vulcan called Lt. (jg) Xon and he was going to explore the human condition. ( Data was based on this character )

I believe Data was based on "Questor" from "The Questor Tapes" - another failed TV pilot by Gene Roddenberry. I had heard a few years ago that they were going to re-do it but haven't heard anything since.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

In his place was a young Vulcan called Lt. (jg) Xon and he was going to explore the human condition. ( Data was based on this character )

I believe Data was based on "Questor" from "The Questor Tapes" - another failed TV pilot by Gene Roddenberry. I had heard a few years ago that they were going to re-do it but haven't heard anything since.

Data was a combination of both those characters.

 

[cbspock]

Not sure that's entirely true. TOS was full of nefarious sorts up to no good: Dr. Tristan Adams, Roger Korby, Trelane, the Gorn, Khan, Kor, Sylvia in "Catspaw," Redjak (you don't get more villainous than Jack the Ripper!), Mudd, Koloth, the evil Romans in "Bread and Circuses," the assassin in "Journey to Babel," various bad guys in "Private Little War," the evil brains on Triskelion, Sargon and company, Nazis, Captain Ronald Tracy, Gorgon the friendly angel, the sadistic Platonians, "Lord Garth," Dr. Sevrin, Colonel Green, Janice Lester . . . .

And that's not even counting all the misguided, desperate aliens that threatened Kirk and crew in "A Taste of Armageddon," "Wink of an Eye," "Mark of Gideon," "The Cloud Minders," etc. And all the homicidal computers with delusions of grandeur.

Rarely did an episode go by that somebody wasn't capturing the landing party, threatening the Enterprise, and probably killing a few redshirts . . . .

Good times.

There were more to those stories than a Starship battle and phaser fights. It just seems Paramount pushes the battles over the characters. They want the next "Wrath of Khan". The examples you cite, weren't villain's in the "TWOK" sense. They weren't the focus of the story as "the bad guy"


-Chris

And yet TOS somehow managed to get a fist-fight into almost every episode! Yes, there was often more to the episodes as well, but let's not forget that TOS had plenty of action-adventure/space opera elements from the beginning. And there was usually some dangerous adversary putting Kirk and the ship in jeopardy . . . .

That's a big part of what made it so fun.

True but the movies have turned into, one bad guy vs. the crew. I would like to see some of the other styles the original series did, in the movies.



-Chris

 

[Warped9]

I know what Nimoy is saying about TMP as far as the pace and 2001 aspirations. But I really disagree that's it not a ST movie.

It very much IS Star Trek, in that it explores the human condition and says something about what it means to be human. It's got some great ST story themes. Not only that, but it's the whole turning point of Spock's life journey, wherein he finally learns and accepts his unique Human/Vulcan identity. Nimoy doesn't get that part?

And after all the ST films to date, TMP is still one of my faves if for not other reason that it DOESN'T have a bad guy dastardly villain that must be defeated with kewl space battles with spaceships and splosions.

ST is SO much more than that and I'm REALLY tired of ST films resorting to that in every installment. I'll watch TMP over all the rest just for the change of pace.

Agreed.

TMP being a failure as "a Star Trek movie" implies that there was some of defined concept of what that would be, but there wasn't. TOS had a broad range of tones and styles, from straight action to melodrama to tongue-in-cheek. There was no single "quintessential" TOS episode; in fact TMP is often accused of being a re-tread of some TOS eps.

As far as the approach to the characters, having the old crew dynamic broken up and put back together was a perfectly valid choice for a feature, which, for all anyone knew at the time, could be the only big screen Star Trek ever. Having Kirk, Spock and company in the same positions as in the series could have been playing it too safe and rung false considering the time that had passed. The characters did act differently than we were used to in TOS but, considering TMP as standing alone, that is the way they should have been written to grow within that plot.

We all know how Star Wars had changed the game in 1977, and TMP does not follow that formula of successive action pieces. But "Close Encounters" was also a hugely successful SF movie that didn't follow that formula. And if there was ever a decade where a broad range of film types could have box office success, it was the '70s. And indeed, on those terms, TMP was very successful.

Justin

Agreed.

I thought it was the best of the movies in many ways - serious, considered, beautiful. I loved it.

Agreed.

The characters return to their "series state" at the end of TMP. I always liked TMP. It was a chance to see the world of Star Trek for the first time with a budget.

The one criticism of the set design was that Enterprise was sterile, and no personal objects, etc were the the quarters. I guess people weren't paying attention to the story. The ship was being rushed out of Space Dock, crews were assigned quickly. No time to set up your quarters when the ship is leaving in 12 hours.

Another thing I liked was the scale of the movie. It did feel like a 2001 type of movie, and less "Star Wars" it was a bold move.

Star Trek has now turned into good guys vs. bad guys since Star Trek 2. If you watch the series, Star Trek didn't have many villains

It was also the only Trek film to feel like a real movie, and not an overblown Star Trek episode filmed for TV.

-Chris

Agreed.

TMP, despite its numerous flaws, was the only ST movie to ever achieve an 'epic' feel. It also gave us the 1701 refit...

Agreed.

 

[Iamnotspock]

There were more to those stories than a Starship battle and phaser fights.

There was more to TWOK than a Starship battle and phaser fights.

It just seems Paramount pushes the battles over the characters. They want the next "Wrath of Khan".

Possibly... If that's the case then they fail to see what made TWOK work.

 

[Greg Cox]

There were more to those stories than a Starship battle and phaser fights.

There was more to TWOK than a Starship battle and phaser fights.

Absolutely. Still probably the best Trek movie ever, and the one I've watched the most.

But, indeed, Star Trek IV worked perfectly fine without a villain or space battles.

 

[Warped9]

There are a lot of right things about TMP. The misses in it are actually small and could have easily been fixed with a little extra time and rewriting...and maybe a little extra paint. The fact that it works as a SF film as well as a Trek film is part of its strength I think.

I do agree that TPTB have become fixated on a villain type story where Kirk and company have to do battle in some form to make it more action like.

TMP was about ideas, and some big ones at that.

TWoK was also about ideas amidst some action.

TSFS is hit-and-miss although it isn't horrible.

TVH stinks in my view. This is laughing at the characters rather than with them. I dislike it more than TFF.

TFF has some great ideas in it, but it feels and looks cheap and sloppy. With more polish it could have been one of the better films.

TUC makes me feel sad in a way. I liked it when new, but now it's not that much better than TFF.

The TNG films just really didn't feel connected to the series. They're all overblown TV episodes and not particularly good ones at that. Whatever I didn't like about TNG just seems writ even larger in the films.

ST09...well, I have nothing good to say about it.

 

[Greg Cox]

Given a choice, my favorites would have to be II, IV, VI, First Contact, and the reboot.

Every decade or so, I try to watch TFF again, just to see if it's really as much of a muddled misfire as I remember. Sadly, it always is.

One of these days, I need to check out Nemesis again. I've only seen it once, the weekend it opened, so I can't really opine authoritatively about it!

I have fond memories of watching TMP on opening night, and have surely watched it a few more times since, but I can't say I'm really in a hurry to watch it again. Whereas if I dip into Khan or the whales again, just to double-check some obscure plot point, I invariably end up watching the whole thing all the way through. Both are imminently rewatchable.

And the reboot injected some good, old-fashioned pulp energy into a franchise that, IMHO, was in danger of forgetting that Star Trek was supposed to be fun. As one perceptive reviewer put it, the new movie gave Star Trek a badly-needed dose of Viagra!

 

[Nerys Myk]

Perhaps it was due to it being a TV show, but TOS could pack a lot into a hour. TMP just felt padded with not enough story to fill an hour, much less two plus.

 

[T'Bonz]

III is my favorite and comes closest to regular Star Trek than the others.

TMP was dull. WOK is still painful to watch, even though technically it's the best of the movies. IV was fun, but it is really dated. V - nothing good can be said about it. VI was good too, but jeez, they were getting up there. I loved the ending - them just going off into space.

I have to admit though, in TMP, McCoy made me laugh.

 

[plynch]

How many times do they interview these guys to say the same old thing? I mean, really. He's said nothing new here that he hasn't said 20 times before.[/]

just like in this discussion

 

[newtontomato539]

TMP wasn't a Trek movie.

"The Motionless Picture".

Where's the F U N!?

After The Voyage Home, the only good Trek movies that should have been made and were; are Galaxy Quest and Bad Robot 09.

Viagara Baby!

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Best review I saw of ST:TMP at the time was very brief:

"Star Trek: The Motion Picture - frankly, that's giving it the benefit of the doubt."



Years later I still like TWOK, TMP, FC and Abrams's Trek movies. The others (maybe an honorary mention to TVH) are negligible.

 

[T'Bonz]

FC was good too. I *love* the first contact scene (although I love the takeoff on the FC scene as done in the Mirror Universe Enterprise episodes intro a bit more. )

 

[Gepard]

The only Trek movies I still like are 2, 4, 6 and FC. The rest are varying degrees of crap. TMP is easily the most boring Trek movie to boot; it's so dull that it hurts to watch.

 

[BillJ]

TMP had Kirk, Spock, McCoy and the Enterprise in it. Seems like a Trek movie to me.