I think I need a transfer...

[Tora Ziyal]

I've no self confidence and nothing has helped me to build it. Women, all women, have it easy. I don't care how ugly, fat or whatever a woman is somewhere out there a man will be interested in you in some fashion or at least willing to try.

Yeah, Trekker, women have it real easy. Let me give you an example of how easy: Two years ago, a young guy who apparently hung around my neighborhood broke into my house overnight and raped me at knifepoint. Aside from everything else, the little bastard was young enough to be my grandson. See, you're right: even though I'm older than is traditionally considered attractive by such a young man, he was interested in me. I guess I should've been pleased. After all, nothing in life is more important than having a man be interested in me.

(Sorry, folks. It takes a lot to make me this angry. Such foolishness!)

 

[Trekker4747]

That's obviously not what I meant and I'm sure you (and everyone else) knows it. There's a difference between people showing interest in you and, you know, criminal behavior.

My point being that if a girl wants a date or someone to show interest in her all she pretty much has to do is show up. Because we live in a society where the man is expected to make the first move.

Yes there are exceptions to what will happen and exceptions to what is attractive and what isn't and yes I'm sure for really good looking women it can be annoying and frustrating to get chatted up when you're just going out for groceries or whatever but, in my view, women don't have to try.

When you're a less-than-ordinary looking guy like me, who is not handsome, not cut, and doesn't exactly exude confidence, well, you get ignored. Unless one happens to be a really good-looking and handsome man (again, there are exceptions) then the girls aren't coming your way.

 

[Biffette]

Precisely the problem. I've no self confidence and nothing has helped me to build it. Women, all women, have it easy. I don't care how ugly, fat or whatever a woman is somewhere out there a man will be interested in you in some fashion or at least willing to try. (Grated it's easier for conventionally attractive women) A woman goes to the mall, the store, a bar, whatever and she's going to get men coming up to her trying to court her.

For a man? Not so much unless you happen to be very good-looking and then all one gets is obvious flirting and such.

Be an ordinary man like me? Nothing. No attention, no flirting, nothing. Which means real, hard, effort has to be put forth and when you've got 30-years of your confidence being shot down and eroded away it's hard to really know how to do... Well, anything.

Two problems:

1) You lack self-esteem, I'm not even sure if you respect yourself as a person.

2) You definitely don't respect women as individuals. IMO if a woman did show interest in you you would lose respect for her. After all, what is wrong with her that she would be interested in someone like you, right?

2a) You are upset that no females are interested in a pudgy, ordinary guy like you, but you seem hypercritical of women/potential love interests in other threads. I could find them and link them if you'd like. For example, you want to be happy and in love, and not settle for a 30-something divorcee with kids. Implicit in that statement is that there is no way you could ever love a 30-something divorcee with kids. Why? Would a person fitting that description be undeserving of your love?

2b)

Spoiler: ETA3: This one may be completely wrong.

You disrespect women/people who you feel do not match your intelligence level. When you think someone is stupid you write that you want to hit them (I could be mis-remembering this one and will look for it shortly.) Why are you so sure that this female at work is smart enough to be a match for you? Is anyone smart enough to be a match for you? And I'm not even addressing your emotional instability and apparent violent tendencies which could be their own thread.

ETA3: I could not find the particular example I had in mind for this one, so I could be completely off-base. Please let me/us know if I am.

Stop hating everyone and everything out there, and it might help with becoming a more contented being. I know what worked for me was deciding what I wanted to be like as a person and studying people who exhibited those traits. YMMV.

ETA:

Because we live in a society where the man is expected to make the first move.

No.
You live inside a place in your head which insists this is true. It isn't.

ETA2:

When you're a less-than-ordinary looking guy like me, who is not handsome, not cut, and doesn't exactly exude confidence, well, you get ignored.

This is good because you've actually listed traits about yourself that you can change if you are so inclined.

 

[ed629]

That's obviously not what I meant and I'm sure you (and everyone else) knows it. There's a difference between people showing interest in you and, you know, criminal behavior.

My point being that if a girl wants a date or someone to show interest in her all she pretty much has to do is show up. Because we live in a society where the man is expected to make the first move.

Yes there are exceptions to what will happen and exceptions to what is attractive and what isn't and yes I'm sure for really good looking women it can be annoying and frustrating to get chatted up when you're just going out for groceries or whatever but, in my view, women don't have to try.

When you're a less-than-ordinary looking guy like me, who is not handsome, not cut, and doesn't exactly exude confidence, well, you get ignored. Unless one happens to be a really good-looking and handsome man (again, there are exceptions) then the girls aren't coming your way.

So in that case, the girl is settling because she relies on her looks not her personality or her mind, and so is the guy that ends up with her. He's thinking at least she looks good.

And in that case, you're judging a relationship on looks alone. Anyone can take a turd, wrap it up in box and make it look nice, it's still a fucking turd on the inside. Do you really want that?

 

[clint g]

Sounds like Trekker needs to join the Infantry.....

 

[Tora Ziyal]

I've no self confidence and nothing has helped me to build it. Women, all women, have it easy. I don't care how ugly, fat or whatever a woman is somewhere out there a man will be interested in you in some fashion or at least willing to try.

Yeah, Trekker, women have it real easy. Let me give you an example of how easy: Two years ago, a young guy who apparently hung around my neighborhood broke into my house overnight and raped me at knifepoint. Aside from everything else, the little bastard was young enough to be my grandson. See, you're right: even though I'm older than is traditionally considered attractive by such a young man, he was interested in me. I guess I should've been pleased. After all, nothing in life is more important than having a man be interested in me.

(Sorry, folks. It takes a lot to make me this angry. Such foolishness!)

That's obviously not what I meant and I'm sure you (and everyone else) knows it. There's a difference between people showing interest in you and, you know, criminal behavior.

Then write what you mean instead of making ridiculous generalizations that beg for over-the-top refutations.

When you're a less-than-ordinary looking guy like me, who is not handsome, not cut, and doesn't exactly exude confidence, well, you get ignored. Unless one happens to be a really good-looking and handsome man (again, there are exceptions) then the girls aren't coming your way.

So, instead of waiting for someone else to build up your confidence, work on it yourself. For example, if you really believe that it would be easier to meet women if you were better looking and more fit, head to the gym. It'll be good for your body and your self-confidence.

 

[Balrog]

Sounds like Trekker needs to join the Infantry.....

Sounds like Trekker needs to...

... :: I got nothin'...

 

[wissaboo]

unfortunantly low self-confidence can be a vicous circle. Those who have never had don't always understand what it's like to suffer from it.

People with low self-confidence can appear confident when it's a topic they know well/are comfortable with i.e. work but lack it when it comes to other areas such as members of the opposite gender.

In some respects I think men with low self-confidence in this area have it worse than women, give soceitys notion that it should be the male to take the initive, I thought in the 21st century we had moved beyond such notions.

Precisely the problem. I've no self confidence and nothing has helped me to build it. Women, all women, have it easy. I don't care how ugly, fat or whatever a woman is somewhere out there a man will be interested in you in some fashion or at least willing to try. (Grated it's easier for conventionally attractive women) A woman goes to the mall, the store, a bar, whatever and she's going to get men coming up to her trying to court her.

For a man? Not so much unless you happen to be very good-looking and then all one gets is obvious flirting and such.

Be an ordinary man like me? Nothing. No attention, no flirting, nothing. Which means real, hard, effort has to be put forth and when you've got 30-years of your confidence being shot down and eroded away it's hard to really know how to do... Well, anything.

omg that could not be further from the truth. Trust me I've been ignored by all men and hit on by lots of men and you know what was different? my attitude.

start looking at couples and notice the fact that there are lots of really average looking guys with good looking women. And even more with average looking women. Then really ask yourself, is there something so terrible about you that makes you different from everyone else? we all have that voice inside us tearing us down. We just have to learn how to ignore it. Or at least not let it win.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

I didn't think it was possible for Trekker to make me like him even less than I did already. Well-played, sir. I'm too flabbergasted to even give my usual spiel about sexism and misogyny. Jesus Christ.

Trekker, all I can say is, not having a girlfriend is the absolute least of your problems, and frankly, I can't imagine any self-respecting woman ever wanting to be with you, if this is the kind of person you are.

 

[Trekker4747]

I didn't think it was possible for Trekker to make me like him even less than I did already. Well-played, sir. I'm too flabbergasted to even give my usual spiel about sexism and misogyny. Jesus Christ.

Trekker, all I can say is, not having a girlfriend is the absolute least of your problems, and frankly, I can't imagine any self-respecting woman ever wanting to be with you, if this is the kind of person you are.

I'm sorry you dislike me so much.

 

[Shatnertage]

That was a pretty indefensible thing to say. I know a lot of single women who aren't necessarily single by choice, and its laughable to think that all any woman has to do to get positive attention is to walk down the street. Life doesn't work like that.

If you just want to blow off steam about how you're feeling, fine, but as just about everyone's pointed out, with more or less tact, you've really got to change yourself.

If you think your appearance is ruining your chances with women, guess what? You can change it. There's not much you can do about your facial bone structure (minus cosmetic surgery), but you can work on your body by exercising, make sure your grooming is up to snuff, and buy some clothes that flatter you.

Yes, that takes effort, but guess what? It takes effort for everyone else, too. Interacting with people, regardless of whether you're interested in them romantically, doesn't come easily to most of us.

If all this sounds like a lot, here's a few baby steps:

1. Try doing 20 minutes of cardio a day. Get a decent pair of running shoes first. These will cost you $100-$150. Go to a real running shoe store, find out what kind of gait you have, and get the appropriate shoe. Then start running. You don't need anything fancy, and you don't even have to join a gym. Just run for ten minutes, then turn around and run home. You'll probably burn about 400 calories a shot and improve your cardiovascular help.

2. Go to a salon to get a haircut from a real stylist. It'll cost you about $30, give or take. You'd be amazed what this can do for you.

3. Get yourself some new clothes. You don't have to break the bank, but try to find a place where you can talk to a salesperson and get some honest advice.

None of these by themselves will do much, but it'll be an investment of your time and money and it will probably give you more confidence.

And stop thinking of women as functionally different from you. Well, I guess they are functionally different, if they're fully functional, but you know what I mean. The women who appear so perfect and distant to you have the same range of fears and insecurities as you. Maybe even more.

 

[Balrog]

Ah, yes! Now I remember what I was going to say:

OK, ladies. Be sure to heed Trekkers advice. Lose any discriminating taste you may have, doll yerselves up and settle!

I'm off to kill myself now. Ta!

 

[Amaris]

You should start a blog or LJ or something. I'm not being snarky here, I really think you should. Mine is full of all sorts of venting woe-is-me cryptic rants that no one cares about and don't feel the need to solve. It's perfect.

This. I do the same thing, and it feels so good just to let it all out.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

start looking at couples and notice the fact that there are lots of really average looking guys with good looking women.

This describes most couples. Women just about always look better than men IMO.

I'd like to ask trekker: Is there a single piece of advice given to you in this thread that you think you might like to employ?

 

[Scout101]

If the past 15 versions of this thread are any indication? No.

He knows the problem, knows he has to do something about it, but would prefer to sit around and mope, hoping someone will find that attractive and come fix his mess for him.

Bottom line: HE doesn't even like himself, not sure how anyeone else is supposed to. Describes himself as fat, unattractive, uninterresting, with no self-confidence and a dead-end job he hates. He's the whole package, how can they NOT be lining up to get a piece?

Too much effort to link to all the previous times you've received great advice that you haven't taken, and far too lazy to type it all out again, so will just leave it at that. You know what you need to do, Trekker, either get up off your ass and start working on that, or quit bitching about how things aren't magically getting better...

 

[Holdfast]

I'd like to ask trekker: Is there a single piece of advice given to you in this thread that you think you might like to employ?

I'm keeping my fingers crossed it's my "become a prison guard" advice...

 

[iguana_tonante]

That's obviously not what I meant and I'm sure you (and everyone else) knows it. There's a difference between people showing interest in you and, you know, criminal behavior.

My point being that if (...)

No. What you do now is apologize for your comment, look shameful, and shut up. The very idea that you keep defending your point (whatever it might be-- and in this case, it's your usual bullshit) after being deservedly morally flayed by Tora Ziyal is appalling. Behave like an adult instead of a whiny child, for once, and apologize.

 

[Trekker4747]

I apologize for comments above as I'm really not trying to become misogynistic, or in a manner that suggest I "hate women." I don't think it's a fair indication of how I really feel but more on how that devil on my shoulder talks and sometimes he gets a bigger voice than the meeker angel.

It's mostly based on superficial observation tainted and clouded by jadedness and pretty much a lifetime of being ignored by the fairer sex. I admit, and know, it's not a fair characterization or assumption but, again, sometimes that darkside of me comes out and the last couple of days have been those times.


Today? I'm in a much better mood -somehow- and really regret the things I said above as I truly do not believe them.

Again, sometimes the blow-off valve opens up and things need to come out and probably part of the reason I am feeling better today is because some of that crap got vented.

As for taking advice given in this thread (and those who have offered it through PM) I do appreciate it, sincerely, but at the same time it's really hard to "just do." It's easy enough for those with a measure of confidence or experience in areas to tell people to "just do it." But somehow it's not in me to be able to it.

I mean you can be told to work out, train, lift weights and become a handsome, cut, man but some of us are pudgy endomorphs incapable of it.

Yes, I could get a blog or something to express these things but, I dunno.

Do I dislike myself? Sometimes I do but overall, not really. I mostly get frustrated and angry with myself for not being capable of or able to do the things I want to do or to not have the confidence to just ask someone out because I really don't know what I have to offer anyone as nothing's been built up in me to make me feel worthy of anything.

And anymore, I'm not even sure where one goes to meet people in casual situations that doesn't involve a bar full of drunks and loud music (loud noises quickly gives me headaches.)

So it's mostly a feeling sometimes of being stuck. Somehow today I am in a good mood and by "good" I mostly mean... "Neutral" as it's rare I'm ever overly happy but at least for today I'm not depressed and miserable.

The girl at work is frustrating because it seems like every week things are different with her, sometimes she's friendly and chatty, sometimes she's silent towards me, sometimes she walks by me and gives me sort of a quiet, shy-ish, "Hi [Trekker]," and it's just confusing as hell as I don't know what to make of it.

Could I just got up to her and talk to her and see if she wanted to grab dinner sometime or something? In theory, yes I could. But my nerves get the better of me because I greatly fear rejection. Because sort of like in that episode of "Seinfeld" where George wants to tell his girlfriend he loves her Jerry asks if he's confidant in the "I love you return. Because if you say she loves her and she says 'that's great, want to get dinner?" that's a pretty big matzo ball out there."

I'm not confident in a positive reply. And if I don't get one I might be able to cope with the rejection and such but with the question having been asked for me it'll change the entire dynamic and that "failure" will always be around me.

And, besides, far better looking and more confident men than me have tried asking her out and all been spurned. Why should I think I'd do any better? Because, really, she's way out of my league.

 

[iguana_tonante]

I apologize for comments above as I'm really not trying to become misogynistic, or in a manner that suggest I "hate women."

You definitively have issues about women, but at least you acknowledged that your comment was out of line. I'll take what I can.

 

[MacLeod]

Perhaps the lady in question has the some of the same fears, that these better looking men will drop her at the sight of the next attractive lady to come along.