When Did "Tips" (Gratuities) Become So High?

[Kestra]

I'll just say this: given the ever increasing number of petty, overcompensating assholes that seem to populate the world today, I am very relieved my income is not directly related to their judgment and every whim.

This isn't school. None of us are in positions where we should be "grading" the performance of our waiters and waitresses. They do their work. They should be paid. Whether or not they are penalized for doing a substandard job should not be determined by the tip they receive but by the employers who manage them.

Anyone who uses the situation of the current tipping system to "punish" their servers is just being an asshole for the sake of being an asshole.

Like I said before, stop being an asshole.

Seriously? You give a flat rate tip to every server?

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

If one is too cheap to tip decently then instead of making up "reasons" they should simply eat at establishments where tipping is not customary.

 

[Kestra]

I hate this shit about being too cheap or not being able to afford eating out because I'm a really generous person in RL, and I resent these sorts of implications.

 

[Ian Keldon]

There would be a lot less "storm and thunder" about tipping if resteraunts had to pay full minimum wage to start with and "gratuities" truly were gratuities instead of something the waitstaff depends on for basic income.

And yes I speak from experience, having worked a job where tipping was counted into the "basic" pay.

 

[Trekker4747]

Again, if servers were paid more reasonable wages either the meals would go way up in prices or way down in size/quality.

 

[Kestra]

Again, if servers were paid more reasonable wages either the meals would go way up in prices or way down in size/quality.

Good, let's do that. Jack up the prices on the food. Sounds great to me.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Or we could start building Automats again...

 

[Thestral]

^ (to Ian Keldon) Yup. When there's people making next-to-or-actually nothing else than tips (my total from a combined 6 paychecks could sometimes equal 40 cents or so) and so their rent and food (and children's food) is dependent on tips, it makes a difference.

 

[OdoWanKenobi]

Get me a violin.

Ok, harsh, but don't try to pull the guilt thing. I come in and I pay for my meal, and I tip based on the service I receive. If tips are so important to someone's income, then they need to make sure that they earn them. Being belligerent, or lazy does not make me want to reward them.

 

[Trekker4747]

The thing is the price of the food wouldn't go up the 15-20% you're "expected to tip" it'd more than likely double as the restaurant's wages have now almost quadrupled (going from a ~$2.50 rate to the ~$8/$9 min. wage now is.) So the restaurants wages have gone up by that much and all of that money needs to be made up somewhere.

So instead of your average meal at whatever restaurant costing around $10 it'd now more likely cost $20 or more, or to keep that $10 price the quality of food used or the size of the portion would go way down. (Getting you less for you money.) You would then have a domino effect of less people eating out, restaurants closing, putting people out of work and so on and so forth.

I think going to dinner and at least throwing another $5 onto your bill isn't a big deal.

 

[Kestra]

The thing is the price of the food wouldn't go up the 15-20% you're "expected to tip" it'd more than likely double as the restaurant's wages have now almost quadrupled (going from a ~$2.50 rate to the ~$8/$9 min. wage now is.) So the restaurants wages have gone up by that much and all of that money needs to be made up somewhere.

So instead of your average meal at whatever restaurant costing around $10 it'd now more likely cost $20 or more, or to keep that $10 price the quality of food used or the size of the portion would go way down. (Getting you less for you money.) You would then have a domino effect of less people eating out, restaurants closing, putting people out of work and so on and so forth.

I think going to dinner and at least throwing another $5 onto your bill isn't a big deal.

I'd be fine with the price of food going up way more than 20%. I'd expect it. I'd actually feel far more comfortable dining in a place where I knew that the people working there were getting paid a decent wage. I realize that it may become prohibitively expensive for some people to eat out, but isn't that what people are talking about here anyway? Don't go out to eat if you can't afford to?

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Get me a violin.

Ok, harsh, but don't try to pull the guilt thing.

Guilt? There's no guilt. It's just a matter of some folks being cheap. There are many places that one can get a decent meal prepared and served by people who are paid a living wage to do so - there's no good reason to take up a seat in a place where the employees are obliged to work harder and cater to you, for slave's wages, unless you're willing to pay for the privilege. Oddly enough, the overall cost of the meal will probably be lower in the place that pays at least minimum wage but doesn't provide table service.

Probably ninety percent of us can agree that we'd rather see waiters paid reasonable wages, have the price of a meal go up a bit and comfortably abandon tipping altogether. Unfortunately, that's just a hypothetical distraction in any discussion of tipping - because we don't live in that world, and neither do the servers.

 

[horatio83]

I'll just say this: given the ever increasing number of petty, overcompensating assholes that seem to populate the world today, I am very relieved my income is not directly related to their judgment and every whim.

This isn't school. None of us are in positions where we should be "grading" the performance of our waiters and waitresses. They do their work. They should be paid. Whether or not they are penalized for doing a substandard job should not be determined by the tip they receive but by the employers who manage them.

Anyone who uses the situation of the current tipping system to "punish" their servers is just being an asshole for the sake of being an asshole.

Like I said before, stop being an asshole.

You still do not understand that tips are about creating incentives. Crawl back under your bed if you think that conditioning wages upon productivity is an asshole-ish thing to do and let me assure you that there are far nastier things out there that than the notion that hard work shall be rewarded and laziness shall be punished.

 

[nightwind1]

I don't owe my servers a god damn thing. Period. I am obligated to pay what is on the bill. That is all.

Now, that being said, I tip, and try to tip well when it is deserved. If you keep my glass filled, get my food out to me quickly, and give me generally good service, you're getting a decent tip. If you neglect me, if I sit with an empty glass for a very long time, if you act rude or indifferent, then you are getting very little or jack squat. That's the way it works. Tips are a reward for good service. They are not an obligation.

completely agreed. this is how i do tips as well.

However right you guys think you are, its entirely pretentious and unnecessarily self-righteous.

Not at all.

I'm a professional chef. And I'm actually, finally, looking at trying to open my own place sometime this year (hopefully). And my tipping method is essentially the same as theirs: great tip for great service, crappy or no tip for crappy service (and probably a chat with the restaurant manager if service was that bad).

That said...

My plan is to start my wait staff at a little above the minimum waitstaff wage, but after their 90 day trial period, I actually plan on paying them true Minimum Wage, plus their tips. So the potential is there for them to make REALLY good money.

BUT... they will be required to be practically the best damn waitstaff in the state if they want to maintain that level of pay.

 

[doubleohfive]

I'll just say this: given the ever increasing number of petty, overcompensating assholes that seem to populate the world today, I am very relieved my income is not directly related to their judgment and every whim.

This isn't school. None of us are in positions where we should be "grading" the performance of our waiters and waitresses. They do their work. They should be paid. Whether or not they are penalized for doing a substandard job should not be determined by the tip they receive but by the employers who manage them.

Anyone who uses the situation of the current tipping system to "punish" their servers is just being an asshole for the sake of being an asshole.

Like I said before, stop being an asshole.

Seriously? You give a flat rate tip to every server?

No. Of course not. But I do tip at least 20% when I'm out, and definitely when I'm with a big group.

 

[horatio83]

completely agreed. this is how i do tips as well.

However right you guys think you are, its entirely pretentious and unnecessarily self-righteous.

Not at all.

I'm a professional chef. And I'm actually, finally, looking at trying to open my own place sometime this year (hopefully). And my tipping method is essentially the same as theirs: great tip for great service, crappy or no tip for crappy service (and probably a chat with the restaurant manager if service was that bad).

That said...

My plan is to start my wait staff at a little above the minimum waitstaff wage, but after their 90 day trial period, I actually plan on paying them true Minimum Wage, plus their tips. So the potential is there for them to make REALLY good money.

BUT... they will be required to be practically the best damn waitstaff in the state if they want to maintain that level of pay.

Indeed. Restaurants are small companies and not giant corporations with market power on the labour market. If you get decent folks for the minimum wage the productivity of waiters simply isn't higher than that.
It is not your job or the job of the customers to care about the poor waiters. There are plenty of welfare state instruments that can ease the lives of the working poor.

 

[propita]

I'd love to see a restaurant announce that they were paying a living wage and tips were to reward excellent service.

 

[Agent Richard07]

I always tip 20% or round up. The only time tipping annoyed me was when I ordered pizza, went to pick it up, put my bank card in the machine and it had an option for tipping on the display. I didn't want to look bad, so I punched in a tip. I'm used to tipping at restaurants, but I wasn't used to this. Whenever I went back, I made sure to bring cash.

 

[Thestral]

Get me a violin.

Ok, harsh, but don't try to pull the guilt thing. I come in and I pay for my meal, and I tip based on the service I receive. If tips are so important to someone's income, then they need to make sure that they earn them. Being belligerent, or lazy does not make me want to reward them.

Like Dennis said, what guilt? What I posted is just the way things are, and nobody's telling you to tip great for bad service. Instead of being condescending, take a lesson from Kestra (like with iguana, generally sound advice at all times) who made a good point piggybacking off Trekker's caution.

I'd be fine with the price of food going up way more than 20%. I'd expect it. I'd actually feel far more comfortable dining in a place where I knew that the people working there were getting paid a decent wage. I realize that it may become prohibitively expensive for some people to eat out, but isn't that what people are talking about here anyway? Don't go out to eat if you can't afford to?

Although I'd be one of those no longer able to afford to usually.

But I don't think Trekker's correct; how would a 20% hike (let's even call it 25 to maybe account for hosts and bar?) to every meal not even out for you if paying a reasonable wage? Sure on slow nights you'd lose money but on busy night you'd make it up.

Oddly enough, the overall cost of the meal will probably be lower in the place that pays at least minimum wage but doesn't provide table service.

Buffets I would think would be a great example.

 

[Kestra]

I'd take you out to eat, my dear evil twin.