When Did "Tips" (Gratuities) Become So High?
- Thread starter Knight Templar
- Start date
This is basically a caritative argument. We are in the worst recession since the Great Depression so be nice and tip people well.
This sounds like an easy solution but it does not solve any structural problems.
I could modify this flawed argument and claim that you should buy food for the billion people worldwide who are hungry and probably far worse than a Western waiter. Of course you can give part of your income to NGOs who buy food with it and aid during hunger crises but as nice as it is, it does not address the source of the problem. To be blunt, it is a bit like indulgence. Pay a small price to bullshit yourself that you did something great and to be able to forget the problem.
To say it with Oscar Wilde: "The emotions of man are stirred more quickly than man’s intelligence; and, as I pointed out some time ago in an article on the function of criticism, it is much more easy to have sympathy with suffering than it is to have sympathy with thought. [...] The proper aim is to try and reconstruct society on such a basis that poverty will be impossible."
You read way too much into that...like, reductio ad absurdum too much. There's no argument being made, there's no incentive to search for logical fallacies. doubleoh never claimed to be trying to solve any major economic equity issues. He simply stated one way to be an asshole and one way to not be an asshole, and then asserted his opinion that one should not be an asshole.
That's one reason I like McAlister's Deli: they actually DO pay at least minimum wage.
Another tipping thread! Awesome! I love these!
Let me preface this by saying: I ALWAYS tip. Even when I get mediocre or average service (which is most of the time). The main reason is that servers won't hesitate to drop their balls in your food if they recognize you as a bad tipper.
For starters, a tip is a reward for doing something extraordinary in your job. It's not a reward for just doing your job. If for example, a server takes my order, keeps my glass full, brings me my food, brings me my check and takes my money then that server hasn't done anything to earn a tip. (And again, I ALWAYS bow to social pressure and tip anyway).
The main argument for tipping is that restaurant owners pay less than minimum wage to their servers. Now I've never opened a restaurant. One of the MANY reasons is that I don't believe I'd be able to pay my servers a fair wage. I look at that problem and say,"well, it's better to just not open up a restaurant at all." Other people look at that problem and say, "fuck 'em! Maybe they'll get tipped and maybe they won't. Just because it's my business doesn't mean that I'm obligated to pay my employees a fair wage."
Somewhere along the line, because servers are not paid enough, it became the customers job to pay the server's salaries and not the business owner's responsibility.
I didn't start a restaurant. I didn't put a gun to your head and force you to agree to this horrible payment structure. I don't owe you a tip.
That being said, again, I ALWAYS tip...because I don't want to look like a douche and of course because I don't want pubes in my food.
Let me preface this by saying: I ALWAYS tip. Even when I get mediocre or average service (which is most of the time). The main reason is that servers won't hesitate to drop their balls in your food if they recognize you as a bad tipper.
For starters, a tip is a reward for doing something extraordinary in your job. It's not a reward for just doing your job. If for example, a server takes my order, keeps my glass full, brings me my food, brings me my check and takes my money then that server hasn't done anything to earn a tip. (And again, I ALWAYS bow to social pressure and tip anyway).
The main argument for tipping is that restaurant owners pay less than minimum wage to their servers. Now I've never opened a restaurant. One of the MANY reasons is that I don't believe I'd be able to pay my servers a fair wage. I look at that problem and say,"well, it's better to just not open up a restaurant at all." Other people look at that problem and say, "fuck 'em! Maybe they'll get tipped and maybe they won't. Just because it's my business doesn't mean that I'm obligated to pay my employees a fair wage."
Somewhere along the line, because servers are not paid enough, it became the customers job to pay the server's salaries and not the business owner's responsibility.
I didn't start a restaurant. I didn't put a gun to your head and force you to agree to this horrible payment structure. I don't owe you a tip.
That being said, again, I ALWAYS tip...because I don't want to look like a douche and of course because I don't want pubes in my food.
I'm a very generous tipper as long as the service is good.
Even if it's really poor I give something--unless it's downright awful. I've also been known to be extremely generous if the service is exceptional.
I don't have a lot of money and am extremely frugal, but I think people who treat me well should be rewarded. Not doing so just wreaks of douchebagery,
Even if it's really poor I give something--unless it's downright awful. I've also been known to be extremely generous if the service is exceptional.
I don't have a lot of money and am extremely frugal, but I think people who treat me well should be rewarded. Not doing so just wreaks of douchebagery,
I have been a server and bartender for years, and I love both getting tipped and giving good tips to other people in the industry. Nothing makes a server's day more than receiving a great tip. It tells them that their customers genuinely appreciated the work they did for them.
It varies from state to state, but servers in Illinois only make $4.85/hour. That's almost half of the legal minimum wage. It's not just that servers are "underpaid" in a traditional sense. They literally make less than everyone else is legally required to make. Tips make up for that.
I don't know if it's right or how it came to be, but it is the custom in this country to tip your servers. Any server with a good work ethic and pride in their job deserves that 20%.
And the truth is, most people are generally pretty good about tipping. Maybe they don't all leave 20%, but anything between 10-15% is still something. What I always find funny are the people who bust out their phones to calculate an exact 18% tip.
It varies from state to state, but servers in Illinois only make $4.85/hour. That's almost half of the legal minimum wage. It's not just that servers are "underpaid" in a traditional sense. They literally make less than everyone else is legally required to make. Tips make up for that.
I don't know if it's right or how it came to be, but it is the custom in this country to tip your servers. Any server with a good work ethic and pride in their job deserves that 20%.
And the truth is, most people are generally pretty good about tipping. Maybe they don't all leave 20%, but anything between 10-15% is still something. What I always find funny are the people who bust out their phones to calculate an exact 18% tip.
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiHqnfi4PRI[/yt]
If you're a server, don't go chasing after a tip
If you're a server, don't go chasing after a tip
If their bill got to be that big, I would have automatically added the gratuity to their bill. It's an amateur mistake. Poor waiter.
That said, while I certainly wouldn't chase anybody down for a tip, I have had to chase people down who walked out on their bill.
Yeah, same thing here where I am. The "tipping culture" is just not a part of the business model here. The only tipping here, that I am aware of, is when you like the service, pay a little bit more than the bill and tell somebody to keep the change.
I tip well, but I hate the system.
At least it's understood what the fair rate should be. What is really tricky is when you're having other services (hair done) etc. I tip there too, but how much? And I never knew I was supposed to tip the (rather underpaid) hotel maids. I don't always (I don't carry a lot of cash and I forget) but half the problem is that I don't always know what to tip, other than in restaurants.
I'd rather have stuff worked into the price, even if the price increases.
At least it's understood what the fair rate should be. What is really tricky is when you're having other services (hair done) etc. I tip there too, but how much? And I never knew I was supposed to tip the (rather underpaid) hotel maids. I don't always (I don't carry a lot of cash and I forget) but half the problem is that I don't always know what to tip, other than in restaurants.
I'd rather have stuff worked into the price, even if the price increases.
I'm a server and for the most part customers are cool, but there are some textbook examples of scumbags that come in, run me to death, and then stiff me. If they're not going to tip, I wouldn't mind them telling me in advance, that way I don't give them as much attention as I would somebody who was going to. I know that sounds bad, but I have to pay my bills and your cheap ass isn't helping me do so.
I did have an idea for a restaurant that offered a "tipping" or "no-tipping" section, similar to a "smoking" or "non" because there are some douchebags who will run up a hundred dollar check and not bother tipping a frigging cent. This way, those servers in the "non-tipping" section will get paid a higher wage than those in the "tipping" section.
BTW, I have to pay taxes based on the amount of sales I do, whether I get tipped or not.
I did have an idea for a restaurant that offered a "tipping" or "no-tipping" section, similar to a "smoking" or "non" because there are some douchebags who will run up a hundred dollar check and not bother tipping a frigging cent. This way, those servers in the "non-tipping" section will get paid a higher wage than those in the "tipping" section.
BTW, I have to pay taxes based on the amount of sales I do, whether I get tipped or not.
Your hypothetical scenario is a bit more complex. If tips were mandatory the average wage in the tipping section would be higher because the waiters there are incentivized to provide decent service (whereas the others can freeride in the group). Yet tipping is not mandatory so it is not just a simple adverse selection problem, customers can "cheat" which makes working hard a gamble, sometimes you get rewarded for it and sometimes you don't, so this undermines your work incentives.
The latter is by the way a serious problem ignored by right-wingers. In a world where less and less people have a chance to "make it" despite working hard productivity will decrease.
The latter is by the way a serious problem ignored by right-wingers. In a world where less and less people have a chance to "make it" despite working hard productivity will decrease.
Knight Templar
Commodore
Some retailers incidentally strictly forbid their employees from accepting tips. Making it a firing offense even.
Retail is a different industry. Retail workers are also making at least minimum wage. The Food Service industry is an entirely different animal.
Retail workers, while being responsible for good customer service, are usually just there to stock products or ring things up. When you go to the grocery store or Target or Best Buy, you're usually just there to walk around, pick up what you need, pay for it, and leave.
In the service industry, the workers are there to ensure that you have an enjoyable experience. They're usually running their asses off making sure that everything happens the way it's supposed to, when it's supposed to. The best servers, honestly, shouldn't even be that noticeable because they're doing everything right. It's the crappy ones that you tend to be more aware of.
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