Because plenty of people have drawn both Jesus and Moses over the centuries and never had a Jew or Christian issue a fatwa in response. There's no challenge in it.
Just one month away from 2012's "Everybody Draw Mohammed Day"?
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Because plenty of people have drawn both Jesus and Moses over the centuries and never had a Jew or Christian issue a fatwa in response. There's no challenge in it.
Hell, South Park has made a habit of turning Jesus into a cable access TV host who's flown around the globe kicking ass, mowing down Iraqi soldiers with a machine gun and cutting Bill Donohue of the Catholic League in half with a Chinese throwing star. They even had Kyle the Jewish kid repeatedly stab him to death inside a prison cell so he'd resurrect again. But aside from the usual suspects in the Christian media nobody bats an eye anymore and for good reasons.
There's no challenge to any of this anymore. It's all grown so routine and blase. Once you've dunked a crucifix into urine, placed Jesus in a thousand crappy evangelical kid's cartoons and turned him into an ass-kicking avenger armed with heavy automatic weapons who flies around the globe fighting evil with Santa Claus and a talking piece of fecal matter there's nothing really that can surprise anybody anymore when it comes to spoofing and poking fun at Christian icons. Been there. Done that.
There's no challenge to any of this anymore. It's all grown so routine and blase. Once you've dunked a crucifix into urine, placed Jesus in a thousand crappy evangelical kid's cartoons and turned him into an ass-kicking avenger armed with heavy automatic weapons who flies around the globe fighting evil with Santa Claus and a talking piece of fecal matter there's nothing really that can surprise anybody anymore when it comes to spoofing and poking fun at Christian icons. Been there. Done that.
Of course it is, at least for many people, as has been pointed out many times. Ignoring that, and saying the specific thing these people have said is an insult isn't really, is being an asshole.
Also: by making the whole thrust of the thing "Ha ha let's insult the stupid Muslims and their silly backwards superstitions" you're spitting in the eye even of the moderate or liberal Muslims that would otherwise be understanding of different cultural mores or might not even find such depictions, in themselves, insulting.
Or: what Locutus said.
While I have every desire to annoy religious extremists, I have no grand desire to be murdered by them. Not participating.
So... there's no way to criticize Islam without insulting Muslims?
I think that people are very complex things, that we're more than our bank statements, appearances, and even to a degree (though religion can of course be hugely important) our theologies. Some people may say that there is no "them" without their faith, and they're of course entitled to that opinion. But I don't agree.
I'm not saying the depictions of Mohammad should be disrespectful or grotestque, though I don't have a very high opinion of him as a historical figure.
But he was a human, and he died a long time ago, and nobody, not even those who practice one of the world's biggest religions, owns him or his memory. Mohammed the dead human belongs to you and I as much as he does to any liberal or extremist Muslim. History is the birthright of all who tread this Earth.
No humor, there, implicitly or explicitly. If you think insulting people is worthwhile, go ahead and do it. Just stop pretending that it's funny or clever, because you're not finding any takers there.
Hmm. Candide was humorous - get a copy and read it, and you'll find that out. This, OTOH, is simply a proposal to insult a lot of people, and not even in a marginally clever way. Do you not understand the difference, or do you simply not care as long as the insult is conveyed?
Something could be, but this isn't. Keep up.
Now, do you have anything genuinely funny - or even anything containing a decent pretense of humor - to propose, or are you just going to keep beating the dead horse of "It's inherently funny to insult Muslims?"
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So... there's no way to criticize Islam without insulting Muslims?
Sure. You can write a reasonable and non-insulting article about how the incidents and threats of violence due to the Mohammed drawings are a problem in certain sectors of Muslim society and how it's important for moderate Muslims and their leaders to speak out against it.
Or you could just post drawings with no explanation and leave it up to people to interpret for themselves what your point is, or decide that you actually don't have one and are just being a cockbag.
As far as I'm concerned, May 20 is The Eve of The Empire Strikes Back Day.
How about for once in this post-9/11 world that, for a twenty-four hour period on this "Draw Mohammed Day" that people of all faiths no matter how subtle or gross just refrain from doing anything to piss off and antagonize persons of an opposing faith? Is it really that hard? An awful lot of us go through each day of our lives not taking the opportunity to take cheap swipes at Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus or any other faith we can think and have any remote knowledge of. Just try to swallow one another's religious bullshit, don't make asswipe comments or draw defamatory, public pictures of another deity or prophet and just be done with it? Sheeeesh. Unemployment is almost 10% or far higher in most of the globe, the economy is still sick, the Affordable Health Care Act is on the verge of being gutted and there are a million and one other pressing if not downright urgent problems in this country and this world...
and some people want to take the time out of their day to draw pictures of a Muslim prophet and icon JUST to piss off the uneducated and ignorant of that faith and get a lot of innocent people hurt and killed? Is there truly nothing better some of you can do on that day than jam a stick in the eye sockets of over a billion people...even if some of them are drooling, bigoted fundie whackjobs? What's next? A "Paint the Virgin Mary Butt Naked and Holding a Dildo Day" to cheese off a billion Roman Catholics?
Some people need to get a fucking life.
and some people want to take the time out of their day to draw pictures of a Muslim prophet and icon JUST to piss off the uneducated and ignorant of that faith and get a lot of innocent people hurt and killed? Is there truly nothing better some of you can do on that day than jam a stick in the eye sockets of over a billion people...even if some of them are drooling, bigoted fundie whackjobs? What's next? A "Paint the Virgin Mary Butt Naked and Holding a Dildo Day" to cheese off a billion Roman Catholics?
Some people need to get a fucking life.
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So... there's no way to criticize Islam without insulting Muslims?
That's not even in the same solar system as what I said, so... well done? Of course there's a way to fairly criticize Islam, as was pointed out above.
Sticking your fingers in their eyes and saying "Har har Draw Muhammed... u mad bro???" is not the way to do it.
But you know what is gonna be awesome? Abraham Lincoln, Vampire Hunter. Oh wait, that doesn't... bother you... does it?
I indeed find the notion repellent, but would never claim that it somehow "defamed", or personally insulted me, nor would I claim that Lincoln must never be made fun of. Heck, I laugh heartily at the Lincoln gag in the remade Bedazzled, though it's in undeniably poor taste.
Quite. And, while I myself might find some of those depictions to have been in poor taste, wouldn't you agree that society on the whole is better off for having had our buttons pushed and our "sacred" images roughed up a bit?
Muslims know this. They have the same restriction on images of Muhammad as Jews do of their prophets. Do you actually know why we Jews do this, or why Muslims do this? It's quite simple really: we do it to avoid idolatry.
If you put an image of a human being in a synagogue or mosque, potentially we could start worshiping that image as God so we avoid putting images of respected prophets in our religious places. It's a gesture of humility to say that God is so great he cannot be so limited as to be a human being.
Personally, I don't give a fuck if someone draws a rude picture of Moses. I can see, however, how Muslims can get angry at a display of religious humility being turned into a cheap tactic to sneer at them and denigrate their faith. Is blowing stuff up and killing people a valid expression of it? No, and it never should be. However, I think millions of law abiding Muslims who never have done anything to hurt anyone are justified in getting angry at this as well, it's a complete and utter douche move.
It's a pissy gauntlet throw.
Yeah, okay... that's completely in line with your towering rage in the AL, VH thread last year. Not personally insulted at all.
There's remarkable unanimity here - Gaith cannot find one other person who is impressed by this idea, finds it funny or wants anything to do with it.
SSJ3 Muhammad! He's well over 9000!!!
Suffice it to say, Raptor Jesus is supremely disappointed in all of this.
The Pink Unicorn's none too happy either.
And don't get me started on the FSM's mood right now. Meatballs everywhere...
Great post. I like to add that another idea behind forbidding to make a picture of God is that in Judaism as well as its two offspring religions God often stands for the absolute or for something abstract that cannot be symbolized and that to not make a picture of somebody is related to love.
When you love somebody, be it your partner, a dear friend or whoever you often have a hard time to describe the person. Precisely via not nailing him or her down, precisely via not making a picture of him or her you allow him or her to breathe freely, change and develop.
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