Peter David's "Vendetta" Would've Made The Perfect two part Borg show

[Knight Templar]

Re: Peter David's "Vendetta" Would've Made The Perfect two part Borg s

What I like about Imzadi is the lengths to which Admiral Riker is willing to go to achieve happiness and meaning in his life. For me, what makes the book is not the flashback on Betazed but the conflict in the alternate future between Admiral Riker and Commodore Data.

Another thing I hate about the book.

Time travel for something so trivial. Haven't people in the 24th century ever heard about moving on?

Not to mention that it's illegal under the Temporal Prime Directive.

On the subject of Vendetta...that's the book that caused the big dust up over such things in the approvals office during Richard Arnold's "Reign of Terror".

More like Richard Arnold's "Reign of Error".

To this day, I've wondered just how many of the weird ideas and directives that came from "Gene Roddenberry" in his later years were actually Richard Arnold trying to do his "What Would Gene Do"?

 

[doubleohfive]

Re: Peter David's "Vendetta" Would've Made The Perfect two part Borg s

Peter David managed to slam "Vendetta" together and get it published while ST:TNGs 4th season was still underway. That said, it would've made the near perfect followup to "The Best of Both Worlds". You probably would've had to eliminate some stuff to fit it within a two hour (84 minute) two part episode.

Like eliminating the female Borg, downsizing the role of Delcara and Guinan, eliminating the Ferengi and the Tholians from the action but otherwise it would've been great.

1) A reasonably escalation of the Borg threat with five Borg cubes featured (but only three that fight in the final battle).

2) A very strong Picard story.

3) A huge link with the original series.

4) Potential to bring back Lt. Shelby and add an old rival of Picards. I figured Bruce McGill for the role of Captain Korsmo as he was described as "fat".

5) A thrilling build up and great climatic battle. though I probably would've had the Planet Killer destroyed by the final exploding Borg ship rather than the whole "Warp 10 infinite velocity" thing.

Vendetta is overrated. Here's why.

Those criticisms are beyond ridiculous

and I did advocate downplaying one of the elements you find objectionable.

What I like about Imzadi is the lengths to which Admiral Riker is willing to go to achieve happiness and meaning in his life. For me, what makes the book is not the flashback on Betazed but the conflict in the alternate future between Admiral Riker and Commodore Data.

Another thing I hate about the book.

Time travel for something so trivial. Haven't people in the 24th century ever heard about moving on?

Not to mention that it's illegal under the Temporal Prime Directive.

That's not worth mentioning, actually, as the concept of the Temporal Prime Directive" hadn't been established when David wrote Imzadi.

 

[Knight Templar]

Re: Peter David's "Vendetta" Would've Made The Perfect two part Borg s

Peter David managed to slam "Vendetta" together and get it published while ST:TNGs 4th season was still underway. That said, it would've made the near perfect followup to "The Best of Both Worlds". You probably would've had to eliminate some stuff to fit it within a two hour (84 minute) two part episode.

Like eliminating the female Borg, downsizing the role of Delcara and Guinan, eliminating the Ferengi and the Tholians from the action but otherwise it would've been great.

1) A reasonably escalation of the Borg threat with five Borg cubes featured (but only three that fight in the final battle).

2) A very strong Picard story.

3) A huge link with the original series.

4) Potential to bring back Lt. Shelby and add an old rival of Picards. I figured Bruce McGill for the role of Captain Korsmo as he was described as "fat".

5) A thrilling build up and great climatic battle. though I probably would've had the Planet Killer destroyed by the final exploding Borg ship rather than the whole "Warp 10 infinite velocity" thing.

Those criticisms are beyond ridiculous

and I did advocate downplaying one of the elements you find objectionable.

Another thing I hate about the book.

Time travel for something so trivial. Haven't people in the 24th century ever heard about moving on?

Not to mention that it's illegal under the Temporal Prime Directive.

That's not worth mentioning, actually, as the concept of the Temporal Prime Directive" hadn't been established when David wrote Imzadi.

No. But in "Imzadi" Commodore Data makes specific mention that one of the Federations "highest directives" is that the current timeline be preserved, which sounds about the same.

 

[Forbin]

Re: Peter David's "Vendetta" Would've Made The Perfect two part Borg s

^None of that would have stopped Riker anyway.

 

[doubleohfive]

Re: Peter David's "Vendetta" Would've Made The Perfect two part Borg s

Precisely.

 

[Ian Keldon]

Re: Peter David's "Vendetta" Would've Made The Perfect two part Borg s

That's not worth mentioning, actually, as the concept of the Temporal Prime Directive" hadn't been established when David wrote Imzadi.

Actually, the concept of not mucking about with timelines was well established even back then (examples numerous), so even granting you the point that the TPD did not exist metatextually until later, the point is the same: Riker should have known it was wrong to do what he did.

 

[Ian Keldon]

Re: Peter David's "Vendetta" Would've Made The Perfect two part Borg s

Precisely.

Then Commodore Data should have done so.

 

[doubleohfive]

Re: Peter David's "Vendetta" Would've Made The Perfect two part Borg s

I'm not disputing that Riker should or shouldn't have known it was wrong. THe book is very clear that he just doesn't care about it.

My earlier remark was simply that the "directive" we now call the "Temporal Prime Directive" had not been established as such when the book was written.

That said, it's been a long, long time since I've read it, so my memory's a bit fuzzy.

 

[doubleohfive]

Re: Peter David's "Vendetta" Would've Made The Perfect two part Borg s

Precisely.

Then Commodore Data should have done so.

And why didn't he?

 

[Knight Templar]

Re: Peter David's "Vendetta" Would've Made The Perfect two part Borg s

Rewriting history so that it is like you wanted it to turn out is exactly what was viciously condemned in the Star Trek: Voyager two parter "Year of Hell".

And remember, a prime motivation in that episode was the commander of the timeship to create a reality where his wife was still alive. He was willing to destroy thousands of inhabited planets and wipe entire civilizations out of existence to do it.

No matter how much, how long, and how deeply you love someone, there has simply got to be some limits at some point about how far you will go to save them.

Of course Imzadi got around that ethical point by having Troi assassinated by the bad guys (though Riker could not prove it to Commodore Data).

That said, I still don't see the appeal of "Imzadi" on any level.

 

[sonak]

Re: Peter David's "Vendetta" Would've Made The Perfect two part Borg s

The GOF remarks that Riker actually restored the correct timeline by doing what he did anyway.

 

[doubleohfive]

Re: Peter David's "Vendetta" Would've Made The Perfect two part Borg s

That said, I still don't see the appeal of "Imzadi" on any level.

Its a love story.

If you can't understand that, or why it would be so appealing to people, I don't know what to tell you.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Re: Peter David's "Vendetta" Would've Made The Perfect two part Borg s

The GOF remarks that Riker actually restored the correct timeline by doing what he did anyway.

Though that's true, as Data points out earlier in the book, that doesn't actually matter. The timeline is what it is, and to those living in that timeline there isn't a right or a wrong. Admiral Riker may have gotten lucky by restoring an altered timeline, but he was still playing god for his own personal reasons. He was right, but for the wrong reasons.

That said, I still feel an electric thrill when Riker says, basically, "History be damned, consequences be damned. I'm going to do this because I won't be able to live with myself if I don't."

 

[Ian Keldon]

Re: Peter David's "Vendetta" Would've Made The Perfect two part Borg s

My earlier remark was simply that the "directive" we now call the "Temporal Prime Directive" had not been established as such when the book was written.

That said, it's been a long, long time since I've read it, so my memory's a bit fuzzy.

No, you're actually right about that AFAIK. I conflated "in universe" with real life, in this case. The TPD was formally disclosed in real life after Imzadi was published, but it would have been known "in universe".

That said, PAD knew (or should have if he'd been paying attention) that Starfleet officers don't muck about with timelines for personal benefit (or any other benefit, save attempting to restore altered timelines). This goes all the way back to "City on the Edge of Forever".

 

[Ian Keldon]

Re: Peter David's "Vendetta" Would've Made The Perfect two part Borg s

Precisely.

Then Commodore Data should have done so.

And why didn't he?

In universe, he should have.

In real life, because PAD didn't write the story that way.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Re: Peter David's "Vendetta" Would've Made The Perfect two part Borg s

Then Commodore Data should have done so.

And why didn't he?

In universe, he should have.

In real life, because PAD didn't write the story that way.

To be fair, Commodore Data tried to ensure that Troi died. But in the end, he failed.

 

[Knight Templar]

Re: Peter David's "Vendetta" Would've Made The Perfect two part Borg s

That said, I still don't see the appeal of "Imzadi" on any level.

Its a love story.

If you can't understand that, or why it would be so appealing to people, I don't know what to tell you.

I'm a fan of arranged marriages myself.

 

[sonak]

Re: Peter David's "Vendetta" Would've Made The Perfect two part Borg s

My earlier remark was simply that the "directive" we now call the "Temporal Prime Directive" had not been established as such when the book was written.

That said, it's been a long, long time since I've read it, so my memory's a bit fuzzy.

No, you're actually right about that AFAIK. I conflated "in universe" with real life, in this case. The TPD was formally disclosed in real life after Imzadi was published, but it would have been known "in universe".

That said, PAD knew (or should have if he'd been paying attention) that Starfleet officers don't muck about with timelines for personal benefit (or any other benefit, save attempting to restore altered timelines). This goes all the way back to "City on the Edge of Forever".

Uh, PAD did know that, that was kind of the point. Riker was doing it for himself and for love, and didn't care about the rules. It was like Kirk in TSFS doing what he did for Spock.