Where did Menahga come from?

[Wingsley]

Regarding the TMP-era fanon design known as the Mk XII/02, Heavy Destroyer U.S.S. Menahga, seen in the Federation Reference Series Volume 3 in the 1980's:

(Links to images of Menahga: Link #1, Line #2)

Where did the basic design concept for this starship configuration/class come from? (I'm not just talking about who made the design, I'm asking about the design's conceptual origins.)

Who developed this design? Was it all from Mastercom HQ?

IIRC, other Federation Reference Series volumes featured article-pages that provided a text-based overview of a given starship class. I don't recall if anything like that was given for Menehga. Was it provided or not?

Was there ever a TOS-era version of the Menahga? If so, are there images of it anywhere on the 'net?

 

[SchwEnt]

I'm an old fart who remembers when it first appeared (back in the 80s). The first appearance I recall was seeing it in the "Starship Design" naval review book, before FRS and other later tech. manuals. "Starship Design" also includes a description and info of the class, if I remember correctly. You can check Cyg X-1.

I always liked that Menahga, along with the S'harien. They seem to be unique designs.

I've not seen any TOS or TNG variations, even decades later. Seems no one ever wanted to kitbash or fiddle with the design.

 

[SchwEnt]

I checked Cyg X-1. The illustrations from the book are scanned, but the articles are missing. I have the original hardcopy of the book from when I bought it in the '80s. There is a good sized article about the Menagha.

 

[TIN_MAN]

Aridas would probably be in the know on that, you may want to post a query here...
http://federationreference.prophpbb.com/

 

[Wingsley]

Does anyone know why Menahga/S'Harien was alternately called a "heavy destroyer" and a "battlecruiser"?

 

[Wingsley]

I just unearthed this old thread from the TrekBBS Art forum, exhibiting 3D images of the similar Starship Detroyat. Detroyat does look (at least, a little) like an ancestor of the Menahga/S'Harien.

I was reminded of this thread when I did a Google search on the Menahga.

The thought crossed my mind that Detroyat could conceptually be a missing link between the NX-01 Enterprise-class Earth Warp 5 starships and the much-later Constitution-class Federation cruisers of the 23rd century. I'm not totally embracing the idea, nor am I suggesting that something like Detroyat would be the only missing link, but it could conceivably be one of them.

 

[SchwEnt]

"Starship Design" listed it as a battlecruiser and later works called it a heavy destroyer. Probably some of the similar confusion that plagued the Avenger/Miranda Heavy Frigate/Light Cruiser back then.

I also recall SD describing the lower hull as housing marines and assault craft, and the whole lower hull could be detached. It was one of the design differences with the S'harien. The aft fantail (nacelle hull) was moved up and joined the aft primary hull. If the lower hull was detached, you wouldn't lose the adjoining nacelles, too.

 

[Timo]

Probably some of the similar confusion that plagued the Avenger/Miranda Heavy Frigate/Light Cruiser back then.

Such confusion is commonplace in the real world, too. One might spin a little backstory wherein the K'teremny "destroyer" (a ship equal in size and power to the classic Klingon battle cruiser) needed a Starfleet counterpart, which thus also became a destroyer in name and a battle cruiser in design...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Forbin]

It was designed by Michael Morrissette of Mastercom Data Center. He holds a copyright on the design. No idea where the name came from or how he came up with the design.

 

[Starlock]

It was designed by Michael Morrissette of Mastercom Data Center. He holds a copyright on the design. No idea where the name came from or how he came up with the design.

Well - one mystery can be answered - "Menahga" is the name of a town in Minnesota. It is the Chippewa word for "blueberry bush".

I don't see this mentioned by anyone so I will bring it up - the Menahga design was really first issued as a poster sized blueprint from Star Station Aurora (later Mastercom Data Center).

Apparently the whole idea behind the "Menahga" was to first present it as an ambitious prototype design - which turned out to be a bit of a dud. First is the poster....

Next is the article in "Starship Design" which lists the various design failings and proposed changes made by Starfleet.

And then the "S'harien" in the FRS is the redesign of the "Menahga" based upon the article from "Starship Design"

Simple - no?

 

[Max Nex]

S'Harien is actually from Starfleet Prototype , not FRS.

 

[aridas sofia]

I think he is referring to the Mitannic. That was the revision of the Menahga design as presented in the FRS.

 

[137th Gebirg]

And to keep it all straight for what these all look like for everyone... BTW, please let me know if my references and dates are incorrect.

Menahga (from "Tactical Battlecruiser Development" - Michael Morrissette and Starstation Aurora - 1983):

Mitannic (from "Federation Starship Recognition Chart" - Aridas Sofia and Mastercom Data Center - 1987):

S'Harien (from "Starfleet Prototype: The Journal of Innovative Design and Ideas" - David Schmidt and Mastercom Data Center - 1992):

 

[SchwEnt]

Thanks for those pics. I'm familiar with the ships, but having them side-by-side-by-side is handy.

 

[aridas sofia]

Two corrections:

1) Mitannic was by Todd Guenther, not me. And IIRC it originally appeared in Starship Design: Interstellar Forum for Naval Power.

2) David John Schmidt never did any work with Mastercom.

 

[137th Gebirg]

2) David John Schmidt never did any work with Mastercom.

Interesting - so does that mean you did the S'Harien for Mastercom, or did he do it as an independent? I can't remember where I got his name or how it got attached to it.

 

[Forbin]

Just to be a completist - my USS Venture, inspired by the Menahga:
http://www.inpayne.com/models/wallpapers/wallpapers-1920/wallpaper-jep-1920-065.jpg

 

[aridas sofia]

2) David John Schmidt never did any work with Mastercom.

Interesting - so does that mean you did the S'Harien for Mastercom, or did he do it as an independent? I can't remember where I got his name or how it got attached to it.

It is an interesting question. IIRC, Schmidt did a book titled "Starfleet Dynamics" in 1991. It included a number of designs from the FRS/Mastercom works -- the dreadnought Ascension, strike cruiser Belknap, frigate Knox, scout Monoceros, and destroyer Siva. It also included a few like S'Harien that were very similar to ships we had done, but altered in minor ways.

It has created confusion over the years that his works were Mastercom works. But that is definitely not the case.

 

[Nascence]

Well,
Happen to stumble onto this post and thought I would post some images perhaps no one here has seen. Though they have been posted on Aridas' site.
I had planned a few projects around this class, and have lots o' artwork, but still haven't found/had time to scan all of my artwork that I did on this class and subsequent classes based upon my original designs, but have a few things I had posted elsewhere.
These are updated designs for the rest of the Menahga class and its variants as well as subsequent new designs of that class that are very post-TMP/pre-TNG era versions of my original designs.
One image is of a proposed bridge design for the more modern version of this design
I don't have time to delve much into explanations right now, but will just the images for all who have not seen these of recent.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/525/ussmenahgarefitrevisedf.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/826/ussreissenprofileviewre.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/708/reissenhanddrwnperspver.jpg/

(This is a very rough perspective sketch of the previous profile design. My sketch is a little on the "fat" side. The design is thinner and sleeker than I have depicted it here. "Objects in the mirror my appear fatter than they actually appear." HA!!!)

...and finally

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/269/originalbridgedesign.jpg/

Rumors of my demise have been greatly exaggerated...

 

[137th Gebirg]

2) David John Schmidt never did any work with Mastercom.

Interesting - so does that mean you did the S'Harien for Mastercom, or did he do it as an independent? I can't remember where I got his name or how it got attached to it.

It is an interesting question. IIRC, Schmidt did a book titled "Starfleet Dynamics" in 1991. It included a number of designs from the FRS/Mastercom works -- the dreadnought Ascension, strike cruiser Belknap, frigate Knox, scout Monoceros, and destroyer Siva. It also included a few like S'Harien that were very similar to ships we had done, but altered in minor ways.

It has created confusion over the years that his works were Mastercom works. But that is definitely not the case.

AH! Okay, I get it now. Because he used a bunch of Mastercom designs in with his stuff, that's what threw me off. I'll try to correct my bibliography on that one. I honestly had no idea the waters were so murky when it came to the origins of these things. Over 20 years later and things are still being corrected.

Thank you for the clarification.