Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes season 2 discussion thread

[Nerys Myk]

All good points, but neither Fury is real. The role they play is the tough as nails military man turned superspy. That's their character.

I'm sorry, friend; but that's just a description and not a character. Character is nuance; it's not just "I wear a white hat so I'm a good guy.". The Sam Jackson Nick Fury is a different character from David Hasselhoff Nick Fury. They both have the same exact description on paper; both have this same "content of character" you mention; but they are not the same. Are you trying to argue they are the same?

Yes; Nick Fury is not real; but part of story telling is to convince us they are real. If we can not become somehow engaged, then what's the point?

Never saw Hasseloff's version. But the Nick Fury I know is a tough as nails military man turned superspy. That's who Jackson plays. So far I haven't seen enough background for Jackson's Fury to go beyond that. "White" Fury in the comics grew up poor and on the streets. He joined the military and went from enlisted man to officer eventually heading an international espionage organization. Seems to me that could be part of the background for Jackson's Fury as well. But I don't know if that's true because it hasn't been explored. Being a fan of comics, I think Jackson's take on Fury is probably influenced by "White" Fury.

 

[Admiral_Young]

They're both Nick Fury in alternate realities

 

[Edit_XYZ]

^Not sure what the correlation there is.[...]

Turtletrekker, the correlation is obvious; you actually didn't see it?:

In both cases, Christopher is (and was) violently opposed to casting caucasian actors - despite the lack of in story/movie business arguments strong enough to support such a radical stance.

His attitude is quite discriminatory; as such, he, full of moral righteousness, calling others on a supposedly similar attitude is more than a little ironic.

 

[Turtletrekker]

If you say so, but I still don't see the correlation. I don't think the situations are comparable for the reasons I posted. Did you read my entire post, or just what you quoted?

 

[Edit_XYZ]

If you say so, but I still don't see the correlation. I don't think the situations are comparable for the reasons I posted. Did you read my entire post, or just what you quoted?

I did read your entire previous post, Turtletrekker. I addressed, synthetically, your arguments in my previous post: "despite the lack of in story/movie business arguments strong enough to support such a radical stance"

Your arguments are hair-splitting (the kind that can always be found for any side of an argument - see the discussion regarding Fury that followed) - and they most definitely do NOT justify a consistently discriminatory position such as Christopher's.

 

[Turtletrekker]

I think the real problem is that we seem to be having two different conversations here. I (and the rest of us) are talking about Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes season 2. All you seem to want to talk about is Christopher. What's up with that? Actually, no, I don't want to know. I'd rather talk about Avengers: EMH, thanks.

Onward...

 

[Edit_XYZ]

Turtletrekker, you forget, you're the one who kept asking me to unnecessarily detail the statement from my first post regarding Christopher.
If anyone wanted to keep talking about said subject, it was you. And now, you suddenly claim the opposite. What's up with this? And yes, I don't really want to know.

As for the rest, Avengers EMS is, indeed, a better topic for discussion.

 

[Mr Light]

Finally saw the premiere! I can't believe how many characters were in a single episode, that was really cool. Nice to see a full on Fantastic Four guest appearance!

So if they're foreshadowing the Kree-Skrull War and Secret Invasion, I'm assuming they're going to a combination of the two into a single story. Should be cool.

 

[jep316]

I wonder if their planning on doing a version of the Civil War storyline?

 

[Christopher]

It's natural for long-established characters to change and evolve over time, so that there is no single "definitive" version. Is Batman a gun-toting loner, a friendly father figure, a deadpan square in a campy and psychedelic world, or a grim, borderline-paranoid avenger in the worst city on Earth? Is the Doctor a tetchy old grandfather or a feckless cosmic tramp or a debonair swashbucker or any of eight other personalities? Is Commander Shepard a man or a woman?

Arguing over the "real" version of a character is just arguing over personal preference. There is no "real" version, since they're all imaginary. Fictional worlds, characters, or continuities can be changed in ways reality can't (although history can certainly be distorted to change people's beliefs about reality). And the dominant version of a character can change over time as generational tastes and perspectives change. I think that by now, the dominant image of Nick Fury in popular culture has fundamentally changed, due to the sheer number and influence of the various works that have embraced that new image, and due to the potency of the new image itself. It's a change that resonates with our multicultural times, and as TemporalFlux says, it's a change that works for the character.

I also agree with TF that it seems weird now to see Fury portrayed with anything other than his Samuel L. Jackson-style look. The hybrid version of A:EMH, with old-style Fury's full head of graying hair, looks weird to me. It's not as striking and effective a look as the bald, goateed Fury. Maybe I react that way because that Fury reminds me of Captain Sisko on Deep Space Nine, and thus that look more strongly evokes a powerful, badass authority figure for me.

 

[Saga]

I wonder if their planning on doing a version of the Civil War storyline?

i hope not. there are better stories to adapt than that.

 

[Guy Gardener]

And not enough capes to warrant the paper work that can be dealt with existing laws against vigilantism... A Mutant Registration Act however?

 

[JD]

For anyone who is interested the first episodes of Avengers: EMH and Ultimate Spider-Man are available for free on Itunes. Since I don't get Disney XD I'll be getting them tomorrow.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Did anyone think these threat estimates were a little low?

And as far as the Panther is concerned, they're both kings.

There's no way they don't know each other socially.

 

[Disruptor]

Nah.

Wasp's was accurate. He offensive power is low.

Hawkeye may be the best bowman on Earth but he's still just a normal human in very good shape.

Black Panther has fighting skills and access to high tech stuff/vibranium. Medium seems right.

Cap, medium, yeah, since he's a super soldier. His offensive power is brute force, and other Avengers outdo him there.

Iron Man, high...when he's in newer armor.

Hulk EXTREME...can't go higher.

We never got Thor or Ant-Man's assessments. I'd say Thor's is high and Ant-Man is medium...(Giant-Man's efforts seems to underwhelm despite his size)

 

[Christopher]

Wasp's was accurate. He offensive power is low.

Hawkeye may be the best bowman on Earth but he's still just a normal human in very good shape.
...
Cap, medium, yeah, since he's a super soldier. His offensive power is brute force, and other Avengers outdo him there.

If you're just assessing physical power, sure. But Doom's henchwoman's analyses overlooked character traits. Someone can be less physically powerful than others yet still be more clever, more cunning, a better leader, etc. Captain America, Iron Man, and Thor are on three wildly different levels of power, but they're more or less equal as leaders of the Avengers because of their other qualities -- Tony's intelligence and inventiveness, Steve's strategic experience and ability to inspire and rally others. And I'm not too familiar with Wasp in the comics, but in this show, Jan has shown herself to be quite clever, creative, and relentless in action, and is often able to pull off victories that don't seem possible based on relative power levels alone. As for Hawkeye... well, I don't know. Stubbornness and attitude? Whatever it is he has, he's managed to hold his own alongside the heavy hitters.

 

[Disruptor]

Perhaps, but Doom seemed to accomplish his goal. Though, perhaps he needs a fem-bot with better a ass...essment ability.

Richards has been banging (or not) a skrull for who knows how long. The question isn't why he didn't noticed, but why Doom suspected.

 

[Christopher]

Doom knows all!

 

[Guy Gardener]

wasp took out a Hulk (I think it was Ultimate Wasp who took out Ultimate Hulk, "briefly") by shrinking all the way down to ant size... One 8th of an inch, and then going mental with her stingers inside the Hulks ear canal.

In West Coast Avengers in the 80s Hawkeye took out the Abomination with a couple adamantium taser arrows. Which is the exact opposite of what happened to him in the first Secret Wars when he had to hand over all his advanced tech and widgety arrow heads so that Richards could make repairs on Jim Rhode's Iron Man Armour. Clint was super pissed to be going into battle against Kang the Conqueror with sharpened sticks.

Vibranium weapons? I think the Panthers most impressive weapon is the thousands of lawyers he can launch at Doom in a moments notice. If not the cloaked orbital weapons platforms... In Avengers 1959, the Wakandans were talking about similar technology just two years after Sputnik.

Doom would be all About Stark Tech. Not to steal it, but for a good laugh when he's feeling down. But he would be intimate with Iron Man's weaknesses which would make him easier to cornhole than Captain America who is "just" an acrobat.

I've seen (cap and some 60 year old Japanese guy who was probably stereotypically a black belt. I think Byrne was writing?) the Hulk taken out with Judo twice. It's funny as hell. Besides if Doom can send a human being though time to the age of the Pharaohs, then Doom can send half of the Hulk through time to the Age of the Pharaohs.

 

[Turtletrekker]

I've seen (cap and some 60 year old Japanese guy who was probably stereotypically a black belt. I think Byrne was writing?) the Hulk taken out with Judo twice. It's funny as hell.

I think it was a 60 year old Japanese chick, actually. And I think it was during a brief period between Byrne and David. Milgrom, perhaps?