The Fall of Ben Sisko

[DonIago]

The Sisko of old would have talked about this with friends or family and ask what they thought. This new Sisko is keeping it all inside and suffering in silence. In a real sense, he's actually creating the sorrow the Prophets/Wormhole aliens warned him about.

Like he did at the end of season 6?

 

[rfmcdpei]

I agree that Ben has made some spectacularly bad decisions of late, and I really hope that someone is about to smack some sense into him. If not the Prophets, then maybe Jake, or Nerys.

What I really want to know is how Kasidy is dealing with this. I can't imagine that she's letting him go as entirely as he's let her go.

Hell, maybe she could show up on his doorstep and vebally tear him a new one (or better, on the Prophets' doorstep and tear them several new ones, since they're the ones ultimately responsible for this mess).

It's my impression from the advance press that Sisko's dealing with the mess he created with everyone is going to be one of the things he'll be doing.

 

[rfmcdpei]

Well...the thing about Sisko leaving at the end of season six was that he wasn't really running away from a problem but looking for a way to solve it.

I'd argue that Sisko thought that he was solving the problem: if he stays away from the people he cares about, all of them, then they won't die.

It was frankly the coward's way out, IMO. Life is full of uncertainties--tomorrow isn't guaranteed to anyone. Sisko essentially walked out on his family out of fear and convinced himself it was the right and even noble thing to do.

From his perspective, mightn't this have been an easy thing to do?

He was under the impression, based on his year-long stay with the Prophets (who knows what his subjective experience of time was?), that if he stays in contact with the people he cares about they will all die, and that they already have begun to start dying. Sisko's belief was sufficiently strong that he thought that things were at risk of deteriorating significantly if he stayed longer, and that staying to talk about it posed a mortal threat to their lives.

A question to you. What if Sisko was--is?--actually entirely right? What should he have done? What should he do?

 

[Thestral]

I despised Sisko's actions at the end of Rough Beasts... DRG did a great job writing it though, and I'm going to trust he'll extricate Sisko from this mess.

In a real sense, he's actually creating the sorrow the Prophets/Wormhole aliens warned him about.

Agreed.

 

[JD]

I wasn't happy with the actions Sisko took in RBOE, and I definitely was not a direction I liked to see him take, or would have taken if I was writing him, but at the same I think it made perfect sense given how he's acted in the past. Just look at the end of DS9 Season 6, it ended with him leaving Starfleet and the station and hiding out with his father back on Earth. I think given everything that has apparently happened since The Soul Key, his actions in RBOE are perfectly in character with how he was portrayed in the show.

Well...the thing about Sisko leaving at the end of season six was that he wasn't really running away from a problem but looking for a way to solve it.

I'd argue that Sisko thought that he was solving the problem: if he stays away from the people he cares about, all of them, then they won't die.

I'd argue that Sisko thought that he was solving the problem: if he stays away from the people he cares about, all of them, then they won't die.

It was frankly the coward's way out, IMO. Life is full of uncertainties--tomorrow isn't guaranteed to anyone. Sisko essentially walked out on his family out of fear and convinced himself it was the right and even noble thing to do.

From his perspective, mightn't this have been an easy thing to do?

He was under the impression, based on his year-long stay with the Prophets (who knows what his subjective experience of time was?), that if he stays in contact with the people he cares about they will all die, and that they already have begun to start dying. Sisko's belief was sufficiently strong that he thought that things were at risk of deteriorating significantly if he stayed longer, and that staying to talk about it posed a mortal threat to their lives.

A question to you. What if Sisko was--is?--actually entirely right? What should he have done? What should he do?

This is my interpretation as well.

 

[C.E. Evans]

The Sisko of old would have talked about this with friends or family and ask what they thought. This new Sisko is keeping it all inside and suffering in silence. In a real sense, he's actually creating the sorrow the Prophets/Wormhole aliens warned him about.

Like he did at the end of season 6?

Actually, no. As I said upthread, Sisko took a leave of absence and surrounded himself with his family (as Picard did after Wolf 359) as he sought for a way to resolve the situation presented before him at the end of season six. He didn't keep what he was doing to himself, in fact, he shared it with his family and even Dax, bringing them all into the search with him.

I'd argue that Sisko thought that he was solving the problem: if he stays away from the people he cares about, all of them, then they won't die.

It was frankly the coward's way out, IMO. Life is full of uncertainties--tomorrow isn't guaranteed to anyone. Sisko essentially walked out on his family out of fear and convinced himself it was the right and even noble thing to do.

From his perspective, mightn't this have been an easy thing to do?

That's the point. It was the easy thing to do. It's always easy to walk away from something rather than deal with it.

He was under the impression, based on his year-long stay with the Prophets (who knows what his subjective experience of time was?), that if he stays in contact with the people he cares about they will all die, and that they already have begun to start dying. Sisko's belief was sufficiently strong that he thought that things were at risk of deteriorating significantly if he stayed longer, and that staying to talk about it posed a mortal threat to their lives.

That's the cowardly excuse that Sisko grabbed onto. People face life and death every day--there's no guarantee that nothing bad will ever happen in life, and yet people go on with their lives and make the most of every day. Sisko was so afraid to lose his family that he winds up losing them anyway.

A question to you. What if Sisko was--is?--actually entirely right? What should he have done? What should he do?

See, I don't think Sisko is right. I believe that he misinterpreted the Prophets' warning about sorrow befalling his family that his desperate steps to prevent it is actually causing it. I don't think the sorrow is the death of his entire family, but rather his isolation and abandonment of them, and that this is what the non-linear Prophets saw.

As far as what he should have done instead, that's simple. Stop being afraid of the future, live his life and be with his family like everyone else.

 

[rfmcdpei]

That's the point. It was the easy thing to do. It's always easy to walk away from something rather than deal with it.

[. . .]

That's the cowardly excuse that Sisko grabbed onto. People face life and death every day--there's no guarantee that nothing bad will ever happen in life, and yet people go on with their lives and make the most of every day. Sisko was so afraid to lose his family that he winds up losing them anyway.

Sisko was aware that he was cutting himself off from his family and his friends--he'd made the choice to leave them and have them live out their lives away from him, as opposed to staying with them and having their lives foreshortened.

From his perspective, Sisko walking away from everyone was easy enough, especially if the alternative was--as he thought--everyone dying while he stayed.

I don't think Sisko is right. I believe that he misinterpreted the Prophets' warning about sorrow befalling his family that his desperate steps to prevent it is actually causing it. I don't think the sorrow is the death of his entire family, but rather his isolation and abandonment of them, and that this is what the non-linear Prophets saw.

I suspect that we'll find out this summer ...

 

[C.E. Evans]

That's the point. It was the easy thing to do. It's always easy to walk away from something rather than deal with it.

[. . .]

That's the cowardly excuse that Sisko grabbed onto. People face life and death every day--there's no guarantee that nothing bad will ever happen in life, and yet people go on with their lives and make the most of every day. Sisko was so afraid to lose his family that he winds up losing them anyway.

Sisko was aware that he was cutting himself off from his family and his friends--he'd made the choice to leave them and have them live out their lives away from him, as opposed to staying with them and having their lives foreshortened.

From his perspective, Sisko walking away from everyone was easy enough, especially if the alternative was--as he thought--everyone dying while he stayed.

But that doesn't mean that Sisko was right or that how he did it was the correct way. He chose to alienate Kassidy rather than talk to her about his fears. He assumed that she was incapable of understanding him--even after everything they've been through together. IMO, he sold Kassidy and Jake short.

I don't think Sisko is right. I believe that he misinterpreted the Prophets' warning about sorrow befalling his family that his desperate steps to prevent it is actually causing it. I don't think the sorrow is the death of his entire family, but rather his isolation and abandonment of them, and that this is what the non-linear Prophets saw.

I suspect that we'll find out this summer ...

True, but I have faith.

 

[Sjaddix]

well in some ways they probably are not capable although jake might since he got possesed once by them. does not mean he should not have tried.

 

[rfmcdpei]

But that doesn't mean that Sisko was right or that how he did it was the correct way. He chose to alienate Kassidy rather than talk to her about his fears. He assumed that she was incapable of understanding him--even after everything they've been through together. IMO, he sold Kassidy and Jake short.

I sort-of agree with you. * Sisko could be right: Who knows how accurate Sisko's recall of his time in the Celestial Temple are? It's not unimaginable that Sisko is confusing cause and effect, or not grasping a basic point of relationships. It's also not unimaginable that Sisko's beliefs are correct, and that by remaining in contact with the people he cared about he'd be putting them in danger.* I agree with you that Sisko's not talking with his wife about his concerns was a cop-out. Even if he was correct in his belief that she'd refuse to accept his argument, getting her to kick him out, then telling her his motivations almost a year later over subspace after he filed the divorce papers, is far from being his best moment.I think that Sisko's acting in good faith: I think he believes in what he says he believes, that he isn't acting with ulterior motives to get rid of his annoying family or anything like this. Even if he is correct in his beliefs, I think that he could have done a better job of it.To what extent does Sisko's belief reflect what's actually going on? We'll find out.

 

[C.E. Evans]

There's no doubt that Sisko truly believes he's doing the right thing, but that's generally how good men make bad mistakes, IMO.

 

[Saumer]

I have to be honest I wasn't that bothered by the darker turn that Sisko took in this novel. It might not have been the direction that I would have taken him in, but his internal logic as to why he was doing what he was made total sense. Well to me at least.

And there's plenty of scope for this to be addressed. It started with him connecting with Commander Rogeiro at the end of RBoE and will no doubt continue with the upcoming duology.

Does anyone know if there are any plans to tie up the whole Illiena Ghemor/ Ascendants storyline though? That's the only thing that annoyed me about this book, all the references! I wish they'd do a DS9 version of Full Circle and resolve those plots.

The only other thing I seem to have missed in my first read (I'm re-reading for the 1st time just now) is the references the OP made to a space station in the Gamma Quadrant?

 

[Christopher]

The only other thing I seem to have missed in my first read (I'm re-reading for the 1st time just now) is the references the OP made to a space station in the Gamma Quadrant?

That's speculation. The cover to the upcoming novel Raise the Dawn, part two of a Typhon Pact duology by David R. George III, shows a Federation space station under construction next to the Bajoran Wormhole. Some have conjectured that it may be a station being constructed on the Gamma Quadrant end of the wormhole, while others have guessed that it's a replacement for DS9. But we don't actually know what it is, and probably won't know until the duology comes out.

 

[MatthiasRussell]

Many of history's great heros and explorers had terrible personal lives. My personal hero- Ernest Shackleton loved the concept of his family and wrote some touching letters home but was a terrible husband when at home.

I was angry when I read rough beasts and thought DRG III did Sisko a terrible injustice. I've read the book 3 times now and, although I still disagree with Sisko's abandonment, I've come to terms with it because I can believe a character such as Sisko would not be good around the house for long periods. And as DRG III pointed out, Sisko and Kassidy fight often in the show with him leaving her once before.

The 2 things in particular that irk me is that Sisko didn't leave Kassidy, she threw him out. All the blame is not on him. She made him miserable for wanting to go work on that archeological dig and never tried to understand his spiritual side. Also, why did Sisko have to divorce her? Why not just stay separated? I felt since she threw him out, he should let the divorce be her move to initiate. With that thought, I thought him explaining himself to her via a later was cowardly.

But DRG III tells a good story. I don't think his next 2 books will disappoint.

 

[CaptainDonovin]

The most important thing to Sisko I believe is his family. DS9 was a somewhat stable environment to raise his son in. The idea he could cause his family harm by staying had to be hard on him & tugged at him in ways we couldn't imagine.

 

[Rush Limborg]

I agree with rfmcdpei, I was saddened and angry at the development (at Sisko, not David George), so much so I flung the book across the room at the end of that scene.

That's pretty much how I felt when I first heard about the end of Trill: Unjoined.

I was even angrier when I read the scene--and Ezri's reasoning for the decision.

To be honest, though...it did seem out of character (especially seeing as her memories of an incident in Avatar were all wrong). At least in RBOE, you could kinda-sorta understand Sisko's reasoning.

However, we'll see how, and indeed if, George deals with this in the upcoming duology.

Agreed. And the given "back-cover summary" of the book implies that, at the very least, he will.

Next up: let's hope David Mack picks up from the cliffhangar of ZSG very soon...and addresses the triangle, too, while we're at it.

Still--I just hope I won't have reason to throw that one accross the room....

 

[JoeZhang]

Forget the in-universe stuff, when you have one of the most visible African-American sci-fi heroes runs out on his family and become a dead-beat dad then you have to think about what you are doing. Literature doesn't exist in a vacuum.

 

[DonIago]

...but isn't that effectively giving characters "special treatment"?

Oh, we can't make this character X because they're of demographic Y...we'd be catering to a negative stereotype.

It reminds me of the "evil gays" stereotype and the notion that writers shouldn't be allowed to write homosexual characters that might behave in less than virtuous manners.

Trust me, plenty of gay people act like jerks. It's not a stereotype, it's reality. Plenty of people of other orientations -also- act like jerks.

 

[Christopher]

Forget the in-universe stuff, when you have one of the most visible African-American sci-fi heroes runs out on his family and become a dead-beat dad then you have to think about what you are doing. Literature doesn't exist in a vacuum.

You know perfectly well that's a false and dishonest characterization. He became convinced that his family was in danger if he stayed with them, and since he loves them more than anything, he felt he had to leave them to protect them. That's not "running out" or being a "deadbeat."

 

[Sci]

Forget the in-universe stuff, when you have one of the most visible African-American sci-fi heroes runs out on his family and become a dead-beat dad then you have to think about what you are doing. Literature doesn't exist in a vacuum.

Actually, I think this is the strongest argument against Sisko divorcing Kassidy. I think it's completely reasonable to say that it would be preferable to have Star Trek's most prominent African-American male character not be depicted as having a divorce.

But I also think we need to look at what Sisko is actually being portrayed as doing. He is not being portrayed as "running out" on his family; Kassidy threw him out, and his decision to divorce Kassidy is predicated on his belief that this is the only way to protect her.

Further, he is not becoming a "deadbeat dad." A deadbeat dad is one who does not fulfill his obligations for child support. Sisko is becoming a divorced father, yes. But there is no indication that he's failing to provide Kassidy with the financial support he owes her as his ex-wife, or that he's violating any custody agreements. And while it may be sad that they're divorcing, bear in mind that he's rejoined Starfleet and is serving the Federation by protecting it -- including his family. It's not like he's refusing to pay child support and blowing all his money on gambling.