Could we have an alien Captain?

[Satyrquaze]

Well, I wasn't counting direct. Just subordinates.

They were in a relationships in the past, and Shaw described Kirk as the love of her life. She's three ranks lower than Kirk. She quite likely could have been a direct subordinate.

But anyway, at this point it becomes a case of arguing semantics. You say 'Myth', I say 'Exaggeration' based on a joke. In any event, Kirk got around and he earned his reputation honestly.

 

[C.E. Evans]

Well, I wasn't counting direct. Just subordinates.

That wasn't the issue, though. The discussion I was having was in regards to Kirk having a romance with a member of his crew. Shaw doesn't count.

They were in a relationships in the past, and Shaw described Kirk as the love of her life. She's three ranks lower than Kirk. She quite likely could have been a direct subordinate.

Nope. Kirk's relationship with Shaw was before he even took command of the Enterprise (they hadn't seen each other in years).

But anyway, at this point it becomes a case of arguing semantics. You say 'Myth', I say 'Exaggeration' based on a joke. In any event, Kirk got around and he earned his reputation honestly.

But his reputation is built largely on longtime exaggeration by fans and a later retcon in Star Trek II. If you look just at TOS, however, Kirk comes across as more a strait-laced character, especially with members of his own crew. With the exception of the aforementioned Dr. Noel, all of Kirk's romantic incidents have been with someone who wasn't a member of his crew.

 

[Sindatur]

This is all true, but, I'm not sure it's entirely appropriate Diplomacy that Kirk "helped" about every woman he came across on missions

 

[C.E. Evans]

The idea that Kirk "helped" about every woman he came across is also an long-held exaggeration. Kirk did have an eye for the ladies and did kiss a few, but he was actually more chaste than amorous with the majority of women he encountered during the TV series.

 

[Sindatur]

The idea that Kirk "helped" about every woman he came across is also an long-held exaggeration. Kirk did have an eye for the ladies and did kiss a few, but he was actually more chaste than amorous with the majority of women he encountered during the TV series.

One need to look no further than the Caption Contests to see all his sexploits

BTW, where does the "Spock is Bifurcated" meme come from?

 

[22 Stars]

Well he slept with the Scalosian leader, and Drusilla the Slave for sure (sorry not on-screen as TOS is not pornography, but implied is all you are going to get) and was the love interest for Elaan. Got to roll around with Droxine's sister in bed while avoiding being killed, kissed Andrea the android in the line of duty of course, was the object of Miri's girl crush, half of Kirk raped or tried to rape Rand.... my fingers are getting tired.

About half the episodes showed him flirting with one woman or another, so Myth is the wrong word, sorry, Kirk was a ladies man and often portrayed that way.

Leading McCoy in TUC to give up and exclaim 'what IS IT with you ANYWAY' after kissing on Martia.

 

[C.E. Evans]

Well he slept with the Scalosian leader, and Drusilla the Slave for sure (sorry not on-screen as TOS is not pornography, but implied is all you are going to get) and was the love interest for Elaan. Got to roll around with Droxine's sister in bed while avoiding being killed, kissed Andrea the android in the line of duty of course, was the object of Miri's girl crush, half of Kirk raped or tried to rape Rand.... my fingers are getting tired.

Sorry, but no. A "half Kirk"--especially one devoid of all the nobler qualities of the original complete Kirk--doesn't count.

There are only two times that Kirk had confirmed sexual relationships during TOS--with Queen Deela and Mirimanee. There's nothing to suggest he did anything more than kiss the others (although I'm sure many fans believe he slept with all of them because they kissed).

About half the episodes showed him flirting with one woman or another, so Myth is the wrong word, sorry, Kirk was a ladies man and often portrayed that way.

Exaggeration is more appropriate since Kirk only had 20 actual romantic encounters out of 79 episodes of TOS (several others were before TOS). And quite a few of the ones shown in the series featured Kirk either under alien influence or in a deliberate attempt to undermine a degree of power a woman had over him, his crew, and his ship.

Leading McCoy in TUC to give up and exclaim 'what IS IT with you ANYWAY' after kissing on Martia.

Which actually compounded the exaggeration and reinforces the "bad boy" aspect of Kirk that suddenly appeared in Star Trek II. Make no mistake, as I said in my earlier post, Kirk did have a good love life, but it has been made even larger than it actually was during the series. Claims that it happened all the time or in half the episodes simply aren't true.

 

[22 Stars]

I appreciate the homework with the 'half' is exaggeration but that really was one of the take-aways from the fans and casual viewer of TOS at the time and like you said is perpetuated by the films. I would say most exaggerate it, or exaggerate its importance to the show, but there is not much to gain by downplaying it either. His persona as a ladies man is 'reinforced' in many episodes, like Conscience of the King, even, nothing wrong with that.

I love that you have the Kirk romance statistics calculated, sorted and vetted though, that is fun!

 

[C.E. Evans]

It was never an issue that Kirk wasn't a ladies man in TOS--no one has ever denied that, least of all me--but his overall reputation as "Starfleet's bad boy" doesn't really come from TOS itself.

 

[Satyrquaze]

I love that you have the Kirk romance statistics calculated, sorted and vetted though, that is fun!

What's the line?

"We're Star Trek fans. Arguing endlessly about minuta is our birthright."

 

[Mojochi]

Under a few circumstances, it could work, imo. The main concern being that it's the lead of the show

1, If the alien was only minimally alien looking, like a DS9 Trill

2. If the show were a spinoff, starring an earlier character becoming a captain, like for example Worf. We're familiar enough with him that he could take on a lead role, & his makeup would not be as much a difficulty to the audience

3. Perhaps if it were a long standing alien race that the audience is accustomed to, like a Vulcan. I'm thinking of Saavik, who when her hair is down, only really looks minimally alien, as I mentioned before

 

[22 Stars]

It was never an issue that Kirk wasn't a ladies man in TOS--no one has ever denied that, least of all me--but his overall reputation as "Starfleet's bad boy" doesn't really come from TOS itself.

Oh, that I agree with. He was a gifted prodigy who excelled and achieved greatness at a young age. Gary Mitchell makes that clear, that his focus early on was school not the ladies. The new film changed that, but that is a different universe.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

Under a few circumstances, it could work, imo. The main concern being that it's the lead of the show

1, If the alien was only minimally alien looking, like a DS9 Trill

2. If the show were a spinoff, starring an earlier character becoming a captain, like for example Worf. We're familiar enough with him that he could take on a lead role, & his makeup would not be as much a difficulty to the audience

3. Perhaps if it were a long standing alien race that the audience is accustomed to, like a Vulcan. I'm thinking of Saavik, who when her hair is down, only really looks minimally alien, as I mentioned before

1. Makes sense, so as to not alienate any new viewers--though if they went with a Trill I think an Unjoined one would be better, they are supposed to be in the majority after all.

2. I could see that, though I would prefer anyone but Worf. Yes he was a good character, lots of development and storylines, Mr Dorn did an excellent job of bringing him to life, etc, but I think he's been overused and I don't think there's anything more to be done with him. Besides, due to his actions on DS9, Sisko said it was extremely doubtful that he would get his own command.

3. I would love to see a Vulcan as Captain, or maybe a Vulcan-hybrid. Saavik would kick ass! Would be good to see adventures in the early-24th century as well. Maybe she got command of the Excelsior after Sulu was promoted to Admiral?

 

[C.E. Evans]

If the show were a spinoff, starring an earlier character becoming a captain, like for example Worf. We're familiar enough with him that he could take on a lead role, & his makeup would not be as much a difficulty to the audience

I could see that, though I would prefer anyone but Worf. Yes he was a good character, lots of development and storylines, Mr Dorn did an excellent job of bringing him to life, etc, but I think he's been overused and I don't think there's anything more to be done with him. Besides, due to his actions on DS9, Sisko said it was extremely doubtful that he would get his own command.

But not impossible. Sisko was merely voicing his opinion. Otherwise, Worf could have long since redeemed himself several times over since then and could have his own ship right now for all we know.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

But not impossible. Sisko was merely voicing his opinion. Otherwise, Worf could have long since redeemed himself several times over since then and could have his own ship right now for all we know.

That is very true.

Though I would love a good valid reason for why he gave up being an Ambassador to return to Starfleet (thanks to Nemesis screwing that up).

 

[C.E. Evans]

But not impossible. Sisko was merely voicing his opinion. Otherwise, Worf could have long since redeemed himself several times over since then and could have his own ship right now for all we know.

That is very true.

Though I would love a good valid reason for why he gave up being an Ambassador to return to Starfleet (thanks to Nemesis screwing that up).

Yeah, but given that three years had passed between the end of DS9 and Nemesis, it might have been considered water under the bridge by the time of Shinzon's uprising.

Still, it would have to had been something that drove Worf back to Starfleet fairly quickly, even if it was a simple issue that he ultimately didn't like the job, who knows?

 

[Yevetha]

2. I could see that, though I would prefer anyone but Worf. Yes he was a good character, lots of development and storylines, Mr Dorn did an excellent job of bringing him to life, etc, but I think he's been overused and I don't think there's anything more to be done with him. Besides, due to his actions on DS9, Sisko said it was extremely doubtful that he would get his own command.

What did he do?

 

[C.E. Evans]

2. I could see that, though I would prefer anyone but Worf. Yes he was a good character, lots of development and storylines, Mr Dorn did an excellent job of bringing him to life, etc, but I think he's been overused and I don't think there's anything more to be done with him. Besides, due to his actions on DS9, Sisko said it was extremely doubtful that he would get his own command.

What did he do?

During an important field mission in the midst of the Dominion War to extract a Cardassian informant with vital intelligence on the Founders hiding within the Federation, Jadzia was critically hurt. Rather than leave her behind to die and continue with the mission, Worf went back for her. The mission failed, the informant was killed, and the intelligence on the whereabouts of the Founders was lost.

Worf received a reprimand afterward and Sisko expressed his opinion at the time that Worf may have ruined his chances of getting a command of his own. However, that was fourteen years ago.

 

[Yevetha]

Kirk did twice worse and got promoted, i dont see the problem.

 

[C.E. Evans]

I tend to think the reprimand did hurt Worf's chances of getting a command for a while, but I'm also inclined to think that he later made up for it in the years since then.