If charcters from the old universe show up...
- Thread starter Yevetha
- Start date
Sounds like you're misremembering Time's Arrow. Contrary to the way causality is usually presented in Star Trek, the Data's head thing was presented as an ontological paradox or a closed causal loop where the time travel incident was triggered by the discovery of Data's head, which was only there because of the time travel incident.
Data treated the past as immutable and I don't recall any reference to the creation of an alternate timeline. In fact, Picard was even able to send a message back to the future by encoding it in the 19th-century version of Data's head. But basically, you can't have just one end of a closed causal loop; it's both or neither. If Data was right then in principle the event still has to happen if the head still exists.
Of course, you could argue that some events create alternate timelines but that each timeline can still be subject to such causal loops; hence the head could be present in Spock Prime's corner of the multiverse but not necessarily the NuTrek one.
A simpler answer is that it's a 40-year-old franchise where the fantasy physics quite rightly exist just to tell whichever story you happen to be experiencing at a given time.
No. As Time's Arrow ended, Data's head was left in the past of the TNG timeline, as the timeline moved onward from the future end of the "closed causal loop". Thus it was there in 2233 when Nero went back. It doesn't just magically disappear from Abramsverse 2233 for absolutely no reason at all.
Scrawny71 said:
That's because the creation of the alternate timeline is in STXI.
Scrawny71 said:A simpler answer is that it's a 40-year-old franchise where the fantasy physics quite rightly exist just to tell whichever story you happen to be experiencing at a given time.
How scientific. In other words, it's not the position that Data's head is there which misremembers or ignores prior canon. It's the position that Data's head is not there which does so.
Read my posts, Set. and if you're going to reply then this time at least address one of my points. In your last post you were too busy pontificating on a logically fallacious position, strawmanning the second part of my post that you quoted and taking the first opportunity you could for infantile sarcasm. None of these constitutes a meaningful or remotely considered reply, or anything but a waste of everyone's time and energy.
It's only a waste of time because of your apparent determination to follow the strategy illustrated above, despite the fact that I'm holding your hand and walking you through the sequence of events. Nothing in the above flailing addresses the point: the magical disappearance of Data's head for no reason at all when Nero goes back in time, which is the "logically fallacious" position. Whatever it is you're using to come to that conclusion, it isn't logic. You may be unable to see the contradiction of your position as "meaningful", but it does in fact have meaning. It's just that you don't approve of that meaning, so you're simply being blatantly dishonest.
Okay, enough - there's no need to make it personal.
I don't know why Data's head needed getting out and kicking around again, anyway. Wasn't the topic pretty much beaten to death the last time it reared its... you know?
I wopuld have paid real money to see the Shat back as Kirk interacting with the new cast. But sadly that is not to be. No old series/film characters are to return in the upcoming film apparently, according to what I have read.
Since the NuUniverse was separate all along then any of Prime Trek's visits to the past wouldn't be in the NuUniverse's past, including First Contact, and not even Enterprise is as certifiably canon in this universe because of that.
Anyway we can always see Guinan in the new movie.
Anyway we can always see Guinan in the new movie.
It was the same right up until the Narada arrived in 2233, including all he visits from the Prime future. Branching universes. Many-worlds theory. Spock says it. The writers said it. The novels back it up.
It was not separate all along, it was created by Nero's time travel.
Well then like in Back To The Future any physical evidence of the Primers past visits would disappear including old newspapers.
Erm... if Trek played by those rules, Nero and Spock themselves would have disappeared, along with their ships!
^ I thought Trek usually employed a slightly amended version of that view of time travel, with the time traveller being essentially the only one whose personal timeline remains unchanged unless someone else gets doused with chromaton particles or something. (First Contact and DS9's Past Tense give examples of this.)
Guinan in Yesterday's Enterprise was somehow aware that she was in the "wrong" timeline. And then there was Tasha's grown up kid, who exists in the "right" timeline as a consequence of the "wrong" timeline's Tasha going back in time.
Guinan in Yesterday's Enterprise was somehow aware that she was in the "wrong" timeline. And then there was Tasha's grown up kid, who exists in the "right" timeline as a consequence of the "wrong" timeline's Tasha going back in time.
I rest my case.
:Cue fight music:
Admiral Archer kicks the snot out of Spock.
The Beagle tm materializes and yacks on Scotty's boots.
"Ach mon."
Admiral Archer kicks the snot out of Spock.
The Beagle tm materializes and yacks on Scotty's boots.
"Ach mon."
Since "Watching the Clock" is set a few years prior to the supernova, and Prime universe peeps wouldn't know the STXI alternate from any of the other infinite billions, it doesn't overtly mention it. But, there is a hypothetical discussion at one point about black holes, one-way time travel and alternate realties.
The Star Trek Online novel "The Needs of the Many" directly references the destruction of Vulcan in an alternate reality, along with Janeway's death and the Borg invasion of "Destiny" in another.
Here's the real-life technobabble about branching alternate realities: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Many-worlds_interpretation