Please help me understand the Q

[sonak]

The Q themselves are counter to that opinion. Look at all of the Q we've met between TNG and even Voyager. They're not often presented as the most stable, mature, or centered lot.

Don't humans likewise counter that opinion? Do any "lower" lifeforms prey on their own kind through bullying, mockery, or outright violence like humans do? Do animals like to torture, experiment on, or "pull the wings off of" other animals simply for pleasure?

Seems like the more advanced the lifeform the greater the tendency to test, harass, mistreat, torture, manipulate or otherwise mistreat lesser species.

the answer to your top question is a definite yes. You ever see a cat toy with a mouse? Killer whales will also "play" with their prey sadistically before eating sometimes. Monkeys and apes also can be vicious toward their own kind within their social structures.

You think Humans are worse because you read stories in the news everyday about what they do, and you don't read about animals behaving viciously.

Sorry to disappoint you but things are no better out in nature.

 

[Shawnster]

Humans currently do, yes, but for the larger part the humans in Trek seem to have grown past all of that and into something more, again, why The Q were so piqued with them and suggested the humans could even out-evolve The Q.

My point was that the "lower lifeforms" currently DON'T. Reality shows the more evolved the species is the greater tendency for said species to inflict harm on lesser ones.

With reality as a precedent, perhaps higher order beings would be MORE inclined to torture and experiment. This seems to be the case in Trek: Metrons, Talosians, Vians, Nagilum.

I think things are worse because whales, cats, etc... don't wage genocidal wars, have the ability to cause mass destruction, rape, torture, hunt for sport, etc... A cat may toy with his food but there is no comparison when it comes to inhumane acts.

On top of that, lower animals act on instinct and not reason. The fact that humans, as a higher form of life with the capacity to reason, think and not act on instinct, still engage in such torturous activities indicates that it's not something easily "outgrown." It's only gotten worse.

 

[sonak]

Humans currently do, yes, but for the larger part the humans in Trek seem to have grown past all of that and into something more, again, why The Q were so piqued with them and suggested the humans could even out-evolve The Q.

My point was that the "lower lifeforms" currently DON'T. Reality shows the more evolved the species is the greater tendency for said species to inflict harm on lesser ones.

With reality as a precedent, perhaps higher order beings would be MORE inclined to torture and experiment. This seems to be the case in Trek: Metrons, Talosians, Vians, Nagilum.

I think things are worse because whales, cats, etc... don't wage genocidal wars, have the ability to cause mass destruction, rape, torture, hunt for sport, etc... A cat may toy with his food but there is no comparison when it comes to inhumane acts.

On top of that, lower animals act on instinct and not reason. The fact that humans, as a higher form of life with the capacity to reason, think and not act on instinct, still engage in such torturous activities indicates that it's not something easily "outgrown." It's only gotten worse.

well of course lower animals can't inflict as much damage because they don't have the intelligence or technology to do so.

It's kind of scary to think of highly advanced and powerful beings with a sadistic streak though. Perhaps highly advanced beings outgrow the capacity for violence and cruelty as a way of avoiding self-destructive actions combined with advanced weaponry.(nuclear wars for example)

 

[Sindatur]

Humans currently do, yes, but for the larger part the humans in Trek seem to have grown past all of that and into something more, again, why The Q were so piqued with them and suggested the humans could even out-evolve The Q.

My point was that the "lower lifeforms" currently DON'T. Reality shows the more evolved the species is the greater tendency for said species to inflict harm on lesser ones.

With reality as a precedent, perhaps higher order beings would be MORE inclined to torture and experiment. This seems to be the case in Trek: Metrons, Talosians, Vians, Nagilum.

I think things are worse because whales, cats, etc... don't wage genocidal wars, have the ability to cause mass destruction, rape, torture, hunt for sport, etc... A cat may toy with his food but there is no comparison when it comes to inhumane acts.

On top of that, lower animals act on instinct and not reason. The fact that humans, as a higher form of life with the capacity to reason, think and not act on instinct, still engage in such torturous activities indicates that it's not something easily "outgrown." It's only gotten worse.

well of course lower animals can't inflict as much damage because they don't have the intelligence or technology to do so.

It's kind of scary to think of highly advanced and powerful beings with a sadistic streak though. Perhaps highly advanced beings outgrow the capacity for violence and cruelty as a way of avoiding self-destructive actions combined with advanced weaponry.(nuclear wars for example)

Yea, I pretty much think that about sums it up, once you get to a certain level of "dangerousness", if you haven't matured enough you're liable to bring about your own end with your own advanced technology

 

[Mojochi]

The more I think about the Q, the more I think that the guy who's got them pegged from very early on is LaForge. He's the one who said they're afraid of Humanity

Think about it, It certainly would explain why they are choosing to allow Q to be cruel to them. It just seems that they are more than just intrigued by humanity, specifically once we get a glimpse into their behavior with Amanda Rogers' parents

Two Q choose to live as humans, & procreate as them, hinting that there are those among them who consider something about humanity appealing & worthwhile. The Continuum's response is to execute them, not force them to return, or remove their powers & make them mortal. They jump straight to execution, suggesting that either that notion is so abhorrent to them that they consider the perpetrators beyond reconciling, which is a bigotry so profound, that it could only have roots in fear, or they consider it so dangerous that it must be eradicated. Either motive would suggest fear of something of Humanity spreading throughout the continuum

So they're not only "Concerned" about a future wherein Humanity advances perhaps beyond them, but are also so adverse to any notion of Q living as Humans that they'd extinguish one of their own from existence, rather than allow it to continue, & risk any Q becoming a proponent of Human values

 

[Bones_McCoy21]

Don't forget some of the Q are arrogent, For example Q! In Q-Who We meet another Q(Whom when I'm talking will be addressed as Q2.) Q2 talks to Q in the shuttle craft and Q2 remarks how terrible it must be for Q to be a lesser being so not only is Q arrogent sometime so are other members of his race.

 

[Alrik]

Not picking here, just FYI. Q Who was season 2's introduction to the Borg. You are talking about season 3's Deja Q with Corbin Bernsen as Q2. And I agree with much of what you are saying. I have always thought that Q reminded of an smart, but spoiled brat. Someone with no real aim or direction, but the means to keep himself entertained.

 

[Vanyel]

Not picking here, just FYI. Q Who was season 2's introduction to the Borg. You are talking about season 3's Deja Q with Corbin Bernsen as Q2. And I agree with much of what you are saying. I have always thought that Q reminded of an smart, but spoiled brat. Someone with no real aim or direction, but the means to keep himself entertained.

But Picard was right in his interpretation of Q's actions n Q Who? He gave them a kick in their complacency and reminded them that the galaxy is dangerous and they need to be ready for threats like the Borg.

With a mutual defense treaty with the Klingons, the Federation was getting comfy in its role of exploration and treaty building. The balance of power was in their favor, because, let's face it, the Klingons weren't going to ask for help very often.

 

[Alrik]

Picard was spot on in Q Who.

The relationship reminds me of an upper classman deciding to single out the younger new kid to bully with a challenge (think EaF), but the new kid calls bullshit, and the bully backs off with an unspoken new respect for the kid. I think Picard had a better understanding of who Q was than Q understood humans. But Q had vastly more knowledge and took a liking to Picard, so over the years he chose to help guide Picard when he felt Picard needed it.

 

[YARN]

Q is a plot device like a holodeck malfunction.

He's not man. He's a MacGuffin.

In episodes where his character is considered, it's thin stuff. Just the "power corrupts" trope played out with the typical self-congratulatory "alien" view of humanity (You humans are so...). It's Data's job to be baffled by humans, so this is just another turn of the same wheel.

Q's behavior is not consistent with the behavior one would expect from a higher life form. Q is much less mature and emotionally intelligent than the species he encounters. In essence, he's just an older version of Trelane (he knows form and has power, but has no wisdom/deep understanding). He's not an intellectually interesting character.

At bottom, Q is an example of the contradiction at play in Star Trek ideology. All this fear of power and power corrupting (think of Riker's corruption when he gets power) and all this fear with regard to the power they do have (the inanities of the preciously punctilious applications of the Prime Directive), and yet driven by an unshakeable belief in technology, progress, exploration (all which reflect a quest for power), and the moral rightness of the Starfleet and the United Federation of Planets.

I can stomach Q best, when I think of him as playing a deeper game - pretending to be a petulant child so as to educate the human race - that is, Q truly being a highly evolved intellectual and moral creature who is giving us a show. But to paraphrase Samuel Jackson in Pulp Fiction, "I like that, but we know that s**t ain't true."

 

[Trekker4747]

Watch "Tapestry" get back to us.

 

[YARN]

Watch "Tapestry" get back to us.

We don't even know that Q intervenes in that episode.

 

[Alrik]

^

Q intervened in one way or another. Either Picard was fatally wounded and Q spared him, or Q made everyone believe that Picard was fatally wounded and then took Picard off for their little adventure. Either way, Q had a hand in it.

 

[YARN]

^

Q intervened in one way or another. Either Picard was fatally wounded and Q spared him, or Q made everyone believe that Picard was fatally wounded and then took Picard off for their little adventure. Either way, Q had a hand in it.

Picard remarks at the end of the EP that he couldn't be sure if Q intervened or if it was all in his head.

 

[Alrik]

I understand that Picard was fuzzy on what happened. He took what would have been a kill shot (for him) to his chest, but lived. I never saw the ep as a fantasy near-death experience playing out. I've always believed it was Q doing what Q does. But hey, to each their own. Believe what you want. Unlike some people around here, I'm not going to tell you how you must watch a show.

 

[Trekker4747]

I took the episode as having "really happened" to teach Picard a lesson in respecting the choices he had made in the past. The only place I think it's questionable if Q helped is whether or not Picard's recovery was due to Q or Crusher's medical talents. But I've no doubt what Q did "really happened."

 

[YARN]

I took the episode as having "really happened" to teach Picard a lesson in respecting the choices he had made in the past. The only place I think it's questionable if Q helped is whether or not Picard's recovery was due to Q or Crusher's medical talents. But I've no doubt what Q did "really happened."

If so, then you have less doubt than the person (character) it actually happened to in that universe.

PICARD: I still don't know what to make of it. Was it a dream? Was it one of Q's elaborate tricks?

RIKER: A lot of people near death have talked about strange experiences, but I've never heard one so detailed.

PICARD: And, you know, there's still a part of me that cannot accept that Q would give me a second chance, or that he would demonstrate so much compassion. And if it was Q, I owe him a debt of gratitude.

 

[Trekker4747]

I have the benefit of knowing how TV shows work.

 

[Mojochi]

I took the episode as having "really happened" to teach Picard a lesson in respecting the choices he had made in the past. The only place I think it's questionable if Q helped is whether or not Picard's recovery was due to Q or Crusher's medical talents. But I've no doubt what Q did "really happened."

If so, then you have less doubt than the person (character) it actually happened to in that universe.

PICARD: I still don't know what to make of it. Was it a dream? Was it one of Q's elaborate tricks?

RIKER: A lot of people near death have talked about strange experiences, but I've never heard one so detailed.

PICARD: And, you know, there's still a part of me that cannot accept that Q would give me a second chance, or that he would demonstrate so much compassion. And if it was Q, I owe him a debt of gratitude.

I've always taken the encounter as being a real encounter with Q. After all, that is so completely Q's modus operandi, wait for moments of consequence, & butt in to have his say, sometimes even creating the moments himself, like in All Good things, or Q-Who. After seeing what we have, can we really think that Q would stand idly by while Picard came so close to death? I don't. I think he'd view it as a perfect opportunity to make an impact on him that meant something, even if the reality might have been that he'd not actually die

 

[Mojomoe]

So I know it's a book and not the TV show (and therefore, not what the writers had in mind when they made the show), but the novel "Q&A" (no, it's not a trivia book) goes a long way to explaining just who the Q are and what their game is. In many ways it's the culmination of the Q arc in the same way Destiny explained, finished, and tied up the Borg arc.

Spoiler: SPOILERS about Q&A

Without giving too much away (because hey, it's a fun read), there are a race of beings (called simply "Them") that are to the Q as the Q are to us - infinitely more evolved, uncaring, and in control. The Q, and Q in particular are desperate to find something to prove to Them that the universe is worth saving, and humanity (via Picard) is their best bet.

So yeah, Q is testing Picard (and enjoying it, of course). Puts the conversation at the end of All Good Things in a different light - Q really, really needs Picard to take the hint at the whole "thinking beyond this plane of existence" thing and kick it into high gear, or we're all buggered.

Some liked the book, some didn't, but for me it was a very satisfying way to tie together all the Q appearances into a coherent narrative wherein they're really not the bad guys. Woulda made a good movie too.

Cheers!
-Moe.