"Castle" season 4 begins tonight

[Christopher]

I think I've made very legit counter points that take into account the series very nature...what you call its "cartoonish" tone or whatever. It seems to me you are doing everything to reject this notion instead of embracing or accepting it.

Why in the world would you think we're somehow required to come to an agreement on this? We're not arguing a question of fact, we're discussing our different subjective reactions to a work of fiction. You're entitled to your opinion, I'm entitled to mine. Different people will inevitably have different tastes and preferences, and mature people respect that fact. I don't like Chinese food, but I'd never try to pick an argument with someone who does like it, because that would be silly; it's not a question of objective truth but of individual reactions. I don't engage in this argument you want to have because there's no reason to argue about it, no "right" answer to be found. De gustibus non est disputandem.

I get you don't like this aspect of the series, but it is there. "Castle" is very satirical. You can't ignore that when doing an approach of analysis like the one you're doing. You are going about it with seriousness in mind when "Castle" and particularly the main character is anything but that. He's serious about his work and career yes, but he also likes to have fun and joke around. Why wouldn't he apply this aspect to his own work?

You're completely misunderstanding my position. I have no problem with Castle's sense of humor. I have a problem with the writers portraying the world unrealistically -- like having the "superhero" killer earlier this season effortlessly bisect someone from head to toe with a single sword blow, something that is physically impossible and that was depicted in a ludicrously cartoony way. It's that carelessness about the plausibility of the world that's what I'm referring to when I call it cartoony. Enjoyment of fiction depends on the willing suspension of disbelief, and these days the writers often fail to earn that willingness from me, largely because the show just doesn't live up to the bar set by the first two seasons.

Maybe we're both just too passionate about the opposite side of our opinions to come to common ground about this particular subject? LOL.

I'm not passionate about it either way; I'm just disappointed that the writing in the past two seasons hasn't been as smart and convincing as it was in the first two seasons. And again, there's no reason why we should have to come to common ground, since it's entirely a question of personal, subjective preference.

 

[Admiral_Young]

I'm not trying to argue with you about it believe it or not...all I've been trying to do is discuss alternatives and generate discussion. I just don't see the vast difference in the quality of writing you do I guess. Maybe it is because I've been focusing mainly on the shipper aspect of the series, rather than taking an overall critical view point. Nothing though has jumped out to me that says oh boy we're starting to get silly. Maybe that will change. *Shrugs*.

 

[Kirby]

Nothing though has jumped out to me that says oh boy we're starting to get silly.

Well, Castle did reach into the nuclear bomb at the last second and pulled out a bunch of wires, which ultimately saved the city. That was a little silly.
The entire show is pretty unbelievable, but that doesn't make it any less fun to watch.

 

[Aragorn]

It's so disappointing that a show about an unpaid, unarmed writer being a police detective's partner and solving over 20 homicides a year doesn't strive for 100% accuracy and authenticity.

 

[Sci]

But a writer portraying characters who are native New Yorkers would not put British slang in their mouths just because he "liked" it, because that would be inauthentic.

Unless he just doesn't care about being authentic.

Try a little deductive reasoning, in the spirit of detective stories. Remember what I just said about the writer capturing Castle's/Fillion's voice exactly? Someone with that good an ear for distinctive character voices wouldn't simply "not care" about authentic speech patterns.

I could easily see someone caring about capturing Fillion's speech patterns but not caring about using accurate New York City slang.

 

[Christopher]

I could easily see someone caring about capturing Fillion's speech patterns but not caring about using accurate New York City slang.

Even if I understood how you could think such a thing was plausible, it just doesn't make sense in the context of the actual books. The level of accuracy and detail in the books' portrayal of New York City hugely surpasses that on the show itself.

Besides, I never said anything about New York City slang. I'm talking about British slang that, to the best of my knowledge, nobody native to America uses, like "loo" or "lav" for bathroom or "liner" for garbage bag. Stuff that I wouldn't expect any American writer to use in their own everyday conversations and therefore would be surprised to see them use when writing American characters.

 

[Forbin]

Although oddly enough, after 15 years on international internet intermessage interboards.... sorry, got caught in a loop there. After 15 years, I do find myself using a variety of foreign phrases. "Glove box" is so much shorter and easier than "glove compartment." "Bonnet" is easier than "Convertible top." I find myself using "Y'all" for casually addressing someone (and I HATE southern accents).

Doesn't excuse the book, of course.

 

[Christopher]

^Nothing to excuse about the book, it's just a minor oddity. It led me to suspect the ghostwriter was British, but now I'm pretty much certain that's not the case, so I'm curious what the explanation is. Your suggestion is an interesting possibility. (I wonder if one of the ghostwriters is married to an Englishwoman, say.)

 

[Christopher]

Well, I was a bit wary of this week's "Once Upon a Crime," since it seemed like doing a fairy-tale murder episode was turning the show into a commercial for another (inexplicably) successful show on the same network. But it turned out to be a fairly solid mystery that didn't require as much suspension of disbelief as a lot of their recent stuff. It even had the clincher clue be a classic type of mystery-story clue, a detail of how the victims were dressed. Nothing I haven't seen repeatedly before, but sometimes it's nice to see the classics revisited.

I'm disappointed in myself, though, because I almost cracked the case very early on. As soon as they found the third victim in the pattern still alive, my first thought was "She's the killer and only pretended to be attacked to throw off suspicion." But I dismissed the idea because I couldn't think how she could've timed her dose of the drugs to ensure she'd survive long enough for the cops to get there. It didn't occur to me that she was watching and took them just as the cops drove up. (Although it was kind of cheating to reveal at the end that she'd received a nonfatal dose; you'd think that would've come up earlier in the investigation and made them suspect her.)

Martha's excuses for turning Castle's apartment into her workspace and performance venue felt a little contrived; it was easy to see that the writers were stuck with using the standing sets and trying to rationalize it. But then, that's a perennial problem in TV and has been for decades, because building new sets is expensive.

 

[firesoforion]

Yeah I liked this week's episode. For some reason when watching Castle I really want to know what the story is, unlike most other mystery shows.

I didn't mind the apartment storyline, but didn't particularly pay attention to it.

I had had the thought that it'd be some murder suicide thing as soon as they only found two victims and thought there was a third, particularly when the three had been at lunch together without a fourth person. Then when they showed the picture with the guy, I started focusing on him and his connection and totally forgot about that theory.

 

[Admiral_Young]

A very enjoyable episode...kind of reminded me of "old school" self contained mystery episode "Castle". I loved the reaction Kate gave Rick after his line about being cute when angry, but not at him lol. So was the look Kate gave him after the joke about Martha lol. She was mortified. Oh and the hand clasp...lol. The walls are crumbling!!!

 

[TimmyWl]

^I picked up on that as well.

It was a good mystery. I totally didn't see the third girl murdering the rest but the changing of the mood when confronted with it seemed a bit expected.

 

[Forbin]

Fun, as always. But the one thing that always annoys me is the "tell the stupid audience the obvious" line that they always do. "It's Red Riding Hood!" (or "It's aliens!" or "It's vampires"). WE KNOW, WE KNOW!!!

 

[Admiral_Young]

Yeah the obvious Rick is excited and giddy about the latest themed case obligatory line...it does grate on you from time to time. It really depends on how whatever the line is delivered by Nathan now to have an effect.

 

[Forbin]

Yeah the obvious Rick is excited and giddy about the latest themed case obligatory line...it does grate on you from time to time. It really depends on how whatever the line is delivered by Nathan now to have an effect.

It's just that you know it's coming every time, and you know what he's going to say, and it's so dumb, ya just want to get past it and move on with the show. It's almost giving me a mini anxiety attack lately .

 

[Worf2DS9]

I enjoyed the episode as well and the fact that the 3rd girl ended up being the killer was a surprise. After the male suspect ended up not being the perpetrator (just guilty of the blackmail), I thought it was going to be Sarah Jane Morris's character, since it seemed like she was going to be one of the recognizable guest stars that always end up being the killer. In fact, the moment I saw her on the screen earlier in the episode, I said "She must be the killer!"

So is Alexis's internship with Laney finished? I was hoping they'd carry that storyline through longer.

 

[Christopher]

Castle seemed to speak of the internship in the present tense. So maybe we'll see her in that role again, but it wasn't necessary here because she had a role in the at-home subplot.

 

[Forbin]

I enjoyed the episode as well and the fact that the 3rd girl ended up being the killer was a surprise. After the male suspect ended up not being the perpetrator (just guilty of the blackmail), I thought it was going to be Sarah Jane Morris's character, since it seemed like she was going to be one of the recognizable guest stars that always end up being the killer. In fact, the moment I saw her on the screen earlier in the episode, I said "She must be the killer!" .

I'm obviously out of touch. I almost never recognize the recognizable guest star.

 

[BigFoot]

Well I recognized Morris (NCIS), Meghan Markle (Suits) and Taylor Kinney (The Vampire Diaries and Shameless).

 

[cardinal biggles]

I very rarely recognize the recognizable guest star. And the few times I do, they end up not being the villain.

I can't decide whether or not Captain Gates not appearing half the time is a good thing or a bad thing. On the one hand, she was supposed to come and shake things up; how can she do that when she's not there. On the other hand, by skipping the obligatory "the captain checks in and sees how they're doing" bits they did when Montgomery was there (and every cop show does, for that matter), it makes the scenes where Gates actually does appear that much more important.