DS9 Relaunch & Mirror Universe reading order

[Janos]

I was visiting the boards at StarTrek.com and read an interesting post that David Mack responded to.

Now, by way of context, I have purchase all of the DS9 Relaunch books and am reading them in order. I'm currently at the beginning of Warpath (with Fearful Symmetry and Soul Key to go for the pre-Destiny DS9).

In terms of MU, the last MU proper books I read were Dark Passions. However, I have picked up the "recent" 3 tpb MU anthologies and David Mack's 2 MU novels (and I've yet to read these 5 MU books).

So, without spoilers please as I'm still at Warpath, is it a big deal if I read those other 5 MU books after I read Soul Key? I know David and the other writers that post here are great writers and they try to make their stories accessible, but the ordering David suggested at the other boards indicates that after Worlds of DS9 I probably should have started with the MU anthologies before reading Warpath that I'm currently on. Due to the DS9 cliffhanger that Worlds of DS9 ended with, I rushed to start Warpath (which I am LOVING btw).

 

[Christopher]

As long as you're familiar with the MU backstory from DS9 itself, there's no problem with reading Warpath/Fearful Symmetry/The Soul Key before the stuff under the Mirror Universe banner. Basically the MU-banner books provide one thread, those three DS9 books provide another, and they converge in Rise Like Lions. As long as you save RLL for last, you can read the preceding threads in either order.

And just to be clear, the version of the MU presented in Dark Passions is incompatible with the more recent books under the MU banner.

 

[David Mack]

^ What Christopher said.

 

[Janos]

As long as you're familiar with the MU backstory from DS9 itself, there's no problem with reading Warpath/Fearful Symmetry/The Soul Key before the stuff under the Mirror Universe banner.

Thanks.

^ What Christopher said.

You're a word economist David.

So, another question, if I may. The 3 anthologies naturally include various stories from various series including TOS (an earlier time vs. TNG era MU). Do all of these storylines (including The Sorrows of the Empire) feed into a broader narrative that culminates in Rise Like Lions? Or is RLL pretty much an TNG MU era story?

 

[Christopher]

So, another question, if I may. The 3 anthologies naturally include various stories from various series including TOS (an earlier time vs. TNG era MU). Do all of these storylines (including The Sorrows of the Empire) feed into a broader narrative that culminates in Rise Like Lions?

Not all, but the majority of them do converge in RLL.

 

[David Mack]

^ Ditto.

 

[Janos]

Not all, but the majority of them do converge in RLL.

Thanks. That's what I thought. I figured the TNG era MU stuff would be the key ones.

^ Ditto.

...economy of words... must be a writer.

 

[Janos]

And just to be clear, the version of the MU presented in Dark Passions is incompatible with the more recent books under the MU banner.

Ok. Hmmm. Didn't Dark Passions come out in the last decade? It's not that old, is it? I can understand why the old TNG Dark Mirror book is out b/c a later DS9 TV portrayal contradicted it and TV is canon. But I am curious about Dark Passions being out of current MU novel continuity. Didn't DP come out after the TV TNG era MU portrayals?

Now someone will probably mention the Shatnerverse MU which is an alternate, um, double alternate timeline, but Shatnerverse was never in sync with "prime" TNG era novel continuity. One would think if the MU character incursions into the prime timeline would be coordinated & count particularly if they all came out after DS9/Voyager.

So, if DP is out, does that mean that the more recent MU stuff that is the substance of this thread are not compatible with any other novelized MU, but are consistent or build on what's been on the various TV shows?

 

[David Mack]

So, if DP is out, does that mean that the more recent MU stuff that is the substance of this thread are not compatible with any other novelized MU, but are consistent or build on what's been on the various TV shows?

Correct.

 

[Janos]

Correct.

Okie dokie. Thanks.

 

[Christopher]

Ok. Hmmm. Didn't Dark Passions come out in the last decade? It's not that old, is it? I can understand why the old TNG Dark Mirror book is out b/c a later DS9 TV portrayal contradicted it and TV is canon. But I am curious about Dark Passions being out of current MU novel continuity. Didn't DP come out after the TV TNG era MU portrayals?

It was after DS9 but before Enterprise's "In a Mirror, Darkly." However, there's no strict cutoff here. The interconnected novel continuity isn't something everyone was required to start doing all at once, but something that emerged gradually under editorial guidance and as a matter of choice and preference. When editors Marco Palmieri and Margaret Clark decided to do a miniseries of interconnected Mirror Universe short novels, they chose to make a fresh start of it, presumably so that they and their chosen authors would have the maximum creative freedom to do the best stories they could come up with, and simply so that the miniseries could stand on its own and be accessible to people who hadn't read a duology from six years earlier.

To be honest, the current MU continuity wouldn't have been as impressive if it had been required to be consistent with Dark Passions. DP is fun for what it is, IMHO, but it was a product of an earlier era of Trek Lit and is a little lightweight compared to the more ambitious sort of thing Marco and Margaret wanted to do. So they were better off starting from scratch (or rather, from canon alone).

Now someone will probably mention the Shatnerverse MU which is an alternate, um, double alternate timeline, but Shatnerverse was never in sync with "prime" TNG era novel continuity. One would think if the MU character incursions into the prime timeline would be coordinated & count particularly if they all came out after DS9/Voyager.

Again, coordination is a choice, not a requirement. And sometimes it just isn't called for. The Shatner books had their own approach, they were geared toward a different audience to some extent, and nobody was going to try to tell William Shatner that he had to be beholden to other people's continuity rather than just doing whatever the hell he wanted. So Shatner and his collaborators did a version of the MU that worked for them, and the main novel line followed its own independent course.

So, if DP is out, does that mean that the more recent MU stuff that is the substance of this thread are not compatible with any other novelized MU, but are consistent or build on what's been on the various TV shows?

That's right. All Trek tie-ins are obligated to be consistent with screen canon as it exists when they're written, but aside from the recent novels and anthologies under the MU banner (and the associated DS9 novels), none of the various MU books and comics that have been published over the years have attempted to be compatible with each other (although there are some cases where they at least don't contradict each other, as I discussed in this post a while back).

 

[JD]

So, another question, if I may. The 3 anthologies naturally include various stories from various series including TOS (an earlier time vs. TNG era MU). Do all of these storylines (including The Sorrows of the Empire) feed into a broader narrative that culminates in Rise Like Lions?

Not all, but the majority of them do converge in RLL.

Just give you an idea of what they mean, a few days before it came out I read a preview containing the first 3 or 4 chapters, and each one of those chapters picked up on plot threads from a different story or stories.

 

[Janos]

It was after DS9 but before Enterprise's "In a Mirror, Darkly." However, there's no strict cutoff here. The interconnected novel continuity isn't something everyone was required to start doing all at once, but something that emerged gradually under editorial guidance and as a matter of choice and preference.).

I like the interconnected nature of of trek lit for the last decade plus, but I understand why editorially it may make sense to shift the lens to an alternate of the alternate MU to allow the most recent MU interconnected lit to be done.

So, if DP is out, does that mean that the more recent MU stuff that is the substance of this thread are not compatible with any other novelized MU, but are consistent or build on what's been on the various TV shows?

That's right. All Trek tie-ins are obligated to be consistent with screen canon as it exists when they're written, but aside from the recent novels and anthologies under the MU banner (and the associated DS9 novels), none of the various MU books and comics that have been published over the years have attempted to be compatible with each other (although there are some cases where they at least don't contradict each other, as I discussed in this post a while back).

Cool. It seems ST lit has been dealing with a "multiverse" for a while now. There appear to be several variations of the Prime and Mirror Universes. That could rationalize ones lit collection and 3 MUs: Dark Mirror, Dark Passions & now the MU Mackverse. Were those the only MU novels in lit?

And now in the movie series the multiverse concept, a staple in scifi and comic books, became more pronounced with essentially an alternate universe taking centre stage in "canon" so-to-speak. Its accessible to new fans and old fans get to play the "Easter Egg" game, but enjoying the new movie series, but also seeing what stayed from the Prime line or was tweaked, e.g. Spock & Uhura's "friendship" .

 

[Janos]

Just give you an idea of what they mean, a few days before it came out I read a preview containing the first 3 or 4 chapters, and each one of those chapters picked up on plot threads from a different story or stories.

Thx. Without spoiling anything since I'm only on Warpath and haven't read any of the "recent" MU books, does the New Frontier plotline from one of the MU trade paperbacks (MU Calhoun is on the cover) continue past that book into Rise Like Lions?

 

[Christopher]

Cool. It seems ST lit has been dealing with a "multiverse" for a while now. There appear to be several variations of the Prime and Mirror Universes. That could rationalize ones lit collection and 3 MUs: Dark Mirror, Dark Passions & now the MU Mackverse. Were those the only MU novels in lit?

No, there's also the Shatnerverse trilogy, Spectre, Dark Victory, and Preserver; and Stargazer: Three features a visitor from what seems to be an incarnation of the Mirror Universe. There are also several visits to the MU in comics, which I mentioned in the post I linked to above: DC's classic "Mirror Universe Saga" (issues 9-16 of its first TOS comic), their first storyline after their adaptation of the third movie; Marvel's "Fragile Glass" one-shot, a direct sequel to "Mirror, Mirror" showing Mirror Spock challenging Kirk's command; "Enemies and Allies," a 2-part Mirror Tuvok/Bashir backup story cowritten by Tim Russ in Malibu's DS9 comic; and IDW's Mirror Images miniseries.

 

[Janos]

Cool. It seems ST lit has been dealing with a "multiverse" for a while now. There appear to be several variations of the Prime and Mirror Universes. That could rationalize ones lit collection and 3 MUs: Dark Mirror, Dark Passions & now the MU Mackverse. Were those the only MU novels in lit?

No, there's also the Shatnerverse trilogy, Spectre, Dark Victory, and Preserver; and Stargazer: Three features a visitor from what seems to be an incarnation of the Mirror Universe. There are also several visits to the MU in comics, which I mentioned in the post I linked to above: DC's classic "Mirror Universe Saga" (issues 9-16 of its first TOS comic), their first storyline after their adaptation of the third movie; Marvel's "Fragile Glass" one-shot, a direct sequel to "Mirror, Mirror" showing Mirror Spock challenging Kirk's command; "Enemies and Allies," a 2-part Mirror Tuvok/Bashir backup story cowritten by Tim Russ in Malibu's DS9 comic; and IDW's Mirror Images miniseries.

Thx. I have all those comics and the Shatnerverse MU novels. Well seems that I've read all the MU out there pre-Warpath. I did unload Dark Mirror a few years ago, after reading DP, but I may try to track down a paperback version of Dark Mirror since I have all the other MU novels/comics which essentially portray alternate Mirror Universes (DP duology in shared universe, Shatnerverse its own MU, & the more recent Mackverse MU, plus the comics noted).

 

[JD]

There are also appearances by characters who are from alternate Mirror Universes in which the Empire never fell. There is a scene in Fearful Symmetry which features Sisko talking to a bunch of alternate universe versions of himself, and one is a Fleet Captain Sisko of a Terran Empire, and in Q&A we see a bunch of alternate E-Es and their crews and one is an ISS Enterprise-E.

 

[David Mack]

Without spoiling anything since I'm only on Warpath and haven't read any of the "recent" MU books, does the New Frontier plotline from one of the MU trade paperbacks (MU Calhoun is on the cover) continue past that book into Rise Like Lions?

Yes, the Calhoun/Excalibur story arcs from Obsidian Alliances and Shards and Shadows are continued in Rise Like Lions. (I was not able to work in the events from the Turnaround comic-book miniseries, however.)

 

[Janos]

Without spoiling anything since I'm only on Warpath and haven't read any of the "recent" MU books, does the New Frontier plotline from one of the MU trade paperbacks (MU Calhoun is on the cover) continue past that book into Rise Like Lions?

Yes, the Calhoun/Excalibur story arcs from Obsidian Alliances and Shards and Shadows are continued in Rise Like Lions. (I was not able to work in the events from the Turnaround comic-book miniseries, however.)

Great. I have them all. They will be part of MU reading. BTW, does Soul Key end on a cliffhanger that leads into Rise Like Lions or can I slot that and the other non-DS9 MU books in later since there's no MU cliffhanger in SK? (No spoilers though, please.)

I am LOVING Warpath btw.

 

[David Mack]

As far as I recall, The Soul Key does not end on a cliffhanger, per se. It does, however, lead directly into Rise Like Lions.