My problems with Kirstens Voyager Novels

[Daddy Todd]

They aren't on the shelves at airports, supermarkets, and bookstores where new readers might be drawn in and actually buy a new book.

It has been years since I've seen Star Trek books in airport bookstores or supermarket racks. Those kinds of places stock a very narrow range of books, and Star Trek hasn't been on their list since the '90's. I don't know why they think all 7 airport bookstores only need to stock the same 25 titles, but that's how they seem to merchandise them these days.

It's not because Star Trek books don't focus on the "classic" tv-series eras, it's because people shopping an airport bookstore for something to read on a flight are vastly more interested in reading a book "written" by Chelsea Handler than Star Trek.

 

[Christopher]

I wonder, could you find Trek books in airports and supermarkets in the '70s, when there weren't new TV episodes or movies to create widespread interest beyond the dedicated fanbase? Those particular markets are geared more toward general readers, not Trek fandom in particular, so it's illogical to think that it would matter to them which facets of the Trek universe the books focused on. As for genuine bookstores, there are indeed Trek novels on the shelves; they aren't as abundant as they used to be (because the Trek lit audience mostly does its book buying online), but new and recent titles are generally still available at major bookstores.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

So, that means that TOS is the only series that is still using the original crew/ship and also the only series-based novels outselling all the other TV series' novels.

Or it means that TNG-era fans are more interested in post-series continuations than TOS-era fans, and would get bored of most series-era stories.

To be fare that might be because you really can't do a pst series continuation to TOS like with TNG, DS9, VOY, and ENT due to the way Star Trek VI ended. Its one thing when you still have the ship and many of the main characters with new ones added to the mix to take over for the missing ones, but with TOS not only is the crew spread out but the ship is gone. And with using the Excelsior or Enterprise-B you might as well just laebel it a new series at that point.

 

[Christopher]

So, that means that TOS is the only series that is still using the original crew/ship and also the only series-based novels outselling all the other TV series' novels.

Even if that second statement were true (and there's no way to verify that since sales figures are confidential), correlation does not imply causation.

Speaking from my own experience, it's hard to compare cumulative sales figures since my books came out at different times, but it looks to me like my strongest-selling books have been Titan: Orion's Hounds and TNG: Greater Than the Sum. So I don't see any evidence that non-TOS or post-series novels are selling poorly. If anything, I suspect that TNG is the top-selling title regardless of whether the books are set during or after the series.

 

[Daddy Todd]

I wonder, could you find Trek books in airports and supermarkets in the '70s, when there weren't new TV episodes or movies to create widespread interest beyond the dedicated fanbase?

Indeed you could. My first Trek book purchase was Star Trek 6 by James Blish, bought at a Safeway in Boise, Idaho in ~1972. I was 12; Trek had been off the network for 4 years, but was just hitting it's early peak in re-runs -- I know I was watching it every day after school. My dad tried to bully me out of buying the book because, as he said, "You've already seen every one of those a thousand times." Yeah, whatever dad; it's Star Trek!

By 1972, Star Trek book sales were so good that Bantam pushed out FOUR volumes of Blish adaptations that year (5, 6, 7 & 8) after publishing 1 Star Trek book a year for the past 5 years. Ballantine got in on the action the following year with Gerrold's The Trouble With Tribbles and The World of Star Trek, and they outbid Bantam for the rights to novelize Star Trek Animated in 1974.

Star Trek book sales in the early-mid 1970's were phenomenal. They were in every grocery store and every bookstore (of which there were only a couple in Boise at the time) that I wandered through. I didn't frequent airports in my teens, so I have no idea if they were being sold in airport newsstands, but every OTHER newsstand seemed to have them, so I assume airports did as well.

I know that by the '80's there were lots of Star Trek books in airport newsstands and bookstores, and they were being sold internationally. I picked up my first copy of The Galactic Whirlpool at an English-language bookstore in San Jose, Costa Rica in early 1982 (I read it on my flight back to the US at the conclusion of a Mormon mission in March, 1982.)

 

[Sho]

Let's not forget that we live in a time where genre fandom is organized more than ever, access to special interest news publications has never been easier thanks to the internet, and the same goes for access to knowledge bases.

The point being, it's likely a lot more viable today to sell "Extended Universe" fiction with original characters and complex continuity than it was in the past, because many more ways exist to make sure readers are aware, informed and excited about what's going on.

Given that, it likely makes good sense not to try and cater to casual airport bookstore browsers, but rather to cater to the needs of a dedicated audience, and grow it via quality and word of mouth. This wouldn't have been as readily an option in the past, but it is today.

 

[Therin of Andor]

My first Trek book purchase was Star Trek 6 by James Blish, bought at a Safeway in Boise, Idaho in ~1972. I was 12; Trek had been off the network for 4 years, but was just hitting it's early peak in re-runs

You could also see rows of many Bantam science fiction paperbacks in the day. Sometimes the ST titles would be interspersed with matching SF novels, and the spines gave only tiny bits of evidence that they were tie-ins to a TV series.

Given that, it likely makes good sense not to try and cater to casual airport bookstore browsers.

That's what new tie-in books like "Star Trek 365" is for. It's been reported at numerous airports around the world.

 

[DimesDan]

That's what new tie-in books like "Star Trek 365" is for. It's been reported at numerous airports around the world.

What's that when it's at home, I've heard of it but never seen it?

And been reported where exactly?

 

[JD]

There are plenty of stories to tell from TNG, DS9, Voyager, and Enterprise that could be set during a series. And aside from TOS, neither the novels or the comics seem interested in telling them.

I think there should be a really tight rein on novels set during any of the series. There are more than enough stand alone stories and the periods concerned are already overcrowded.

I would not stop altogether - there are certainly enough background issues and off screen events to allow for some novels of that sort (Hollow Men springs to mind) but we have enough stand alone novels.

If the story pitch is good enough, it will PROBABLY be possible to set it in a less crowded period...

You can say there are too many novels placed during the various series because you've probably been around for a long time and have read them--but most of those novels are out of print and available only in used book stores. They aren't on the shelves at airports, supermarkets, and bookstores where new readers might be drawn in and actually buy a new book. And new readers, like all of us, are initially hooked by the TV programs and the movies; they will want books set in that familiar period of time.

I don't know about that, I think there are probably quite a few people who are just as interested in what happened after the shows ended. I know that's what attracted me to Trek Lit in the first place. I first got into Trek Lit through New Frontier and then the post-finale DS9 novels. And honestly, if they had continued to only do books set during the shows, I probably wouldn't be that into them. I might pick up a few books by a handful of authors, but I doubt very much that I would read every Trek book, like I do now. We already got 108 (including TAS, and STXI) TOS stories, 180 TNG stories, 173 DS9 stories, 160 VOY stories, and 97 ENT stories. So really I don't see where there's such an incredible need for more stories set during the series.

As for the old books, they're actually not hard to find at all. The vast majority of books that have been published by Pocket are available in e-book form. So far I've only come across 2 or 3 Pocket novels that aren't available in e-form

 

[AuntKate]

Let's not forget that we live in a time where genre fandom is organized more than ever, access to special interest news publications has never been easier thanks to the internet, and the same goes for access to knowledge bases.

The point being, it's likely a lot more viable today to sell "Extended Universe" fiction with original characters and complex continuity than it was in the past, because many more ways exist to make sure readers are aware, informed and excited about what's going on.

Given that, it likely makes good sense not to try and cater to casual airport bookstore browsers, but rather to cater to the needs of a dedicated audience, and grow it via quality and word of mouth. This wouldn't have been as readily an option in the past, but it is today.

OMG, this made me laugh. Word of mouth? Really?

There has to be an infusion of new readers, because old fans die or fade away. It would be interesting to do a poll to find out how many of our faithful fans arrived here by watching the programs/movies first or by reading novels first. I'm putting my money on the programs/movies, and I think that is the best way to get new readers hooked.

However, I needed a chuckle.

 

[Sho]

OMG, this made me laugh. Word of mouth? Really?

[...]

However, I needed a chuckle.

Yeah, a smartass attitude like that is a wonderful contribution to forum climate, and an excellent demonstration of your communication skills as well. I'm sure we're all suitably impressed now.

As for how I meant "word of mouth" (which I think you actually understood from context, but chose to ignore for your own purposes), my point was that I believe it's possible to sell a Vanguard-type original series to general scifi fans thanks to the increased opportunities to market to that audience today and the greater info distribution within that audience's ranks, and because reading up on the context is easy today thanks to resources Google and Memory Alpha/Beta. I believe/hope that allows for sufficient readership growth to keep the line financially viable, and probably more so than fashioning books for the airport audience.

 

[JD]

^ (ETA: This post in in response to AuntKate) What's so hard to believe about the novels getting good word of mouth. Sure it might not attract people who aren't in Trek, but at this point there's probably no way to do that. I'm pretty sure there are probably quite a few people on here who started reading the books because a Trekkie friend recommended them.
Hell, the main reason first expanded beyond NF and the DS9R was because of the good word of mouth the books coming out at the time were getting here. At this point word of mouth is probably going to do alot more to bring in new readers that making more books set during the series.

 

[AuntKate]

^ (ETA: This post in in response to AuntKate) What's so hard to believe about the novels getting good word of mouth. Sure it might not attract people who aren't in Trek, but at this point there's probably no way to do that. I'm pretty sure there are probably quite a few people on here who started reading the books because a Trekkie friend recommended them.
Hell, the main reason first expanded beyond NF and the DS9R was because of the good word of mouth the books coming out at the time were getting here. At this point word of mouth is probably going to do alot more to bring in new readers that making more books set during the series.

I suppose that in the cyberworld, we might be able to define blogging as a type of "word of mouth," but the idea of expanding the interest in Trek in general or the novels in particular in the "true" meaning of that term is rather funny, you have to admit, especially if the audience is not already a Trek fan. "Word of mouth" might encourage a current fan to expand from DS9R to Vanguard or some other non-series related novel, but that initial interest is there--and more than likely started from the small or large screen.

We can differ on your last point. I think there has been an increased interest in the older versions of Trek since Netflix and Amazon have made the videos available, and I think there has also been a resurgence of interest in Trek in general since the NuTrek movie hit the screens. Truly "new" fans are going to come from exposure to the programs/movies, imho, and they'll be hooked if at least some of the novels available are on familiar territory.

Sho, no offense intended. The term just made me laugh, because I looked at it in its traditional application. If I my chuckle hurt your feelings, I apologize for that.

 

[Christopher]

I think there has been an increased interest in the older versions of Trek since Netflix and Amazon have made the videos available, and I think there has also been a resurgence of interest in Trek in general since the NuTrek movie hit the screens. Truly "new" fans are going to come from exposure to the programs/movies, imho, and they'll be hooked if at least some of the novels available are on familiar territory.

On the other hand, some people may feel that if they've seen all the episodes of a show on Netflix, an episodic-type novel wouldn't offer them anything new, whereas a novel that continues the story beyond what they've seen, or spins off whole new ships and characters, would be more interesting because it offers them something new.

I guess it depends on the reader's psychology. Some people, so geneticists say, seem to be inherently more drawn to novelty and change, while others are more inclined to be wary of things that diverge from the familiar. Personally I'd expect people in the former category to be more likely to be fans of science fiction and Star Trek -- particularly since ST is specifically about people who are inherently fascinated by the new, different, and unfamiliar and who have chosen to seek it out as a career. Certainly folks in the latter category could be Trek fans too if it was something they grew up with, but it would be illogical to expect that all Trek fans, or even most, would favor familiar, comfortable stories duplicating the feel of their favorite episodes over more novelty-driven stories that expanded the universe beyond what the shows established. And of course the reality is that the stories expanding the universe have been an ongoing success, as evidenced by the fact that they keep doing more.

 

[Sho]

I suppose that in the cyberworld, we might be able to define blogging as a type of "word of mouth," but the idea of expanding the interest in Trek in general or the novels in particular in the "true" meaning of that term is rather funny, you have to admit, especially if the audience is not already a Trek fan. "Word of mouth" might encourage a current fan to expand from DS9R to Vanguard or some other non-series related novel, but that initial interest is there--and more than likely started from the small or large screen.

What I'm trying to say is that I think the barrier to getting people to make the leap from "interested in scifi" to "interested in buying a Star Trek novel" is a lot smaller today than it used to be.

Star Trek has permeated pop culture to a sufficient degree that everyone is familiar with the basics, and due to the easy access to knowledge bases, no one need fret having no knowledge beyond those basics. Wikis and such are par for the course in the tech-savvy scifi/feek fandom culture now and that culture has exploded in recent years - just look at how gigantic events like SDCC and PAX have become, and those are both just side dishes to much larger internet communities. These people know they're not going to have any trouble becoming a sufficiently-informed Trekkie in no time at all when they want to.

So the question becomes, what sort of novel is going to appeal to that potential audience? I believe hearing about (that's where "word of mouth" comes in again, which to me does include blogs like io9.com and stuff since they're extensions/organs of the community/culture) an original series is a lot more interesting to that type, and thus has a much higher chance of getting noticed, than just another novel featuring the stock cast of characters from a TV show. A general scifi interest online publication is much more likely to run an article with the formula "You all know about Trek, but did you know there's this edgy new original novel series?" than cover normal tie-in novels. New and different is interesting and worthy of mention and being fan'ed, not same old.

IMHO the goalpost has moved to establishing credibility for the Trek novel line as its own thing. With no TV show airing to funnel readers to the books in airport bookstores, it has to make news for itself.

 

[Sci]

Just an FYI: S&S has released a chapter from the upcoming TOS novel THAT WHICH SURVIVES by Dayton Ward. It's set during the original series, about the original crew aboard the original Enterprise, doing original series-type things.

You know, one of those novels that Pocket Books doesn't publish anymore.

You can read the sample chapter here.

 

[AuntKate]

Just an FYI: S&S has released a chapter from the upcoming TOS novel THAT WHICH SURVIVES by Dayton Ward. It's set during the original series, about the original crew aboard the original Enterprise, doing original series-type things.

You know, one of those novels that Pocket Books doesn't publish anymore.

You can read the sample chapter here.

Sorry, but you're mistaken. We agreed that the only series that still has novels set during the original run or movies is The Original Series. It's the others, TNG, DS9, and VOY--that seem to be permanently caught up in the relaunch timeline. You just reinforced our point!

 

[Sci]

Just an FYI: S&S has released a chapter from the upcoming TOS novel THAT WHICH SURVIVES by Dayton Ward. It's set during the original series, about the original crew aboard the original Enterprise, doing original series-type things.

You know, one of those novels that Pocket Books doesn't publish anymore.

You can read the sample chapter here.

Sorry, but you're mistaken. We agreed that the only series that still has novels set during the original run or movies is The Original Series.

No, you moved the goalposts. First you claimed that there were "few, if any" of the "Familiar Paradigm" novels; I gave you a list of several that were recently published. Then you claimed that it was only TOS; then I provided evidence that over 90 "Familiar Paradigm" novels had been published in the past ten years, spanning all of the canonical TV series.

You are, in other words, just plain wrong.

 

[Therin of Andor]

What's that when it's at home, I've heard of it but never seen it?

http://therinofandor.blogspot.com.au/2010/08/star-trek-365.html

Paulablock & Terry Erdmann were very excited when I posted the above to my blog and Facebook. Turns out I had found/reviewed the first commercially-available copy of "Star Trek 365".

Over the next few weeks, people were adding to Paula's FB page sightings of the book - and it was turning up in many US airport bookshops. Exactly Abrams Publishing's target audience: casual browsers with a vague interest in ST, looking for a pictorial coffee table book.

A matching "TNG 365" is coming in September.

What I'm trying to say is that I think the barrier to getting people to make the leap from "interested in scifi" to "interested in buying a Star Trek novel" is a lot smaller today than it used to be.

Bantam Books had a very good reason for making "Star Trek" and "Twilight Zone" collections look just like their regular science fiction MMPBs. Ditto the first few years of Pocket's novels, coming out under the "Timescape" imprint, just like their regular SF MMPBs.

 

[AuntKate]

Just an FYI: S&S has released a chapter from the upcoming TOS novel THAT WHICH SURVIVES by Dayton Ward. It's set during the original series, about the original crew aboard the original Enterprise, doing original series-type things.

You know, one of those novels that Pocket Books doesn't publish anymore.

You can read the sample chapter here.

Sorry, but you're mistaken. We agreed that the only series that still has novels set during the original run or movies is The Original Series.

No, you moved the goalposts. First you claimed that there were "few, if any" of the "Familiar Paradigm" novels; I gave you a list of several that were recently published. Then you claimed that it was only TOS; then I provided evidence that over 90 "Familiar Paradigm" novels had been published in the past ten years, spanning all of the canonical TV series.

You are, in other words, just plain wrong.

Did a little reorganization of your familiar paradigm list--by series:

Section 31: Cloak (TOS)
Gateways: One Small Step (TOS)
TOS: In the Name of Honor
TOS: Janus Gate 1
TOS: Janus Gate 2
TOS: The Last Roundup
TOS: Janus Gate 3
TOS: Errand of Vengeance 1
TOS: Errand of Vengeance 2
TOS: Errand of Vengeance 3
TOS: Gemini
TOS: Garth of Izar
TOS: Duty, Honor, Redemption
TOS: Sand and Stars
TOS: Ex Machina
TOS: Errand of Fury 1
TOS: Worlds in Collision omnibus
TOS: Vulcan's Glory (old reprint)
TOS: Strangers From the Sky (old reprint)
TOS: Crucible 1
TOS: Constellations anthology
TOS: The Entrophy Effect (old reprint)
TOS/TNG: Federation (old reprint)
TOS: Rihannsu 5
TOS: Crucible 2
TOS: Rihannsu omnibus
TOS: Errand of Fury 2
TOS: Crucible 3 (actually 3 books)
Excelsior: Forged in Fire 2007
TOS: Errand of Fury 3 (actually 3 books)
TOS: Mere Anarchy omnibus
TOS: Troublesome Minds
TOS: Inception
TOS: Unspoken Truth
TOS: The Children of Kings
TOS: A Choice of Catastrophes
TOS: The Rings of Time
TOS: That Which Divides
DTI: Forgotten History (TOS) 2012

TNG: Tooth and Claw
TNG: Maximum Warp 1
TNG: Maximum Warp 2
TNG: The Genesis Wave 2
Section 31: Rogue (TNG)
Gateways: Doors into Chaos (TNG)
TNG: The Genesis Wave 3
TNG: Immortal Coil
TNG: A Hard Rain
TNG: The Battle of Betazed
TNG: Nemesis novelization
TNG: Do Comets Dream?
TNG: Q Continuum omnibus
TNG: Imzadi Forever omnibus
TNG: A Time to Be Born
TNG: A Time to Die
TNG: A Time to Sow
TNG: A Time to Harvest
TNG: A Time to Love
TNG: A Time to Hate
TNG: A Time to Kill
TNG: A Time to Heal
TNG: A Time for War/Peace
TNG: The Sky's the Limit 2007
TNG: Nighshade (old reprint)

DS9: Millennium omnibus
DS9: Prophecy and Change anthology
DS9: Hollow Men 2005

Section 31: Shadow (VOY)
VOY: Endgame novelization
Gateways: No Man's Land (VOY)
VOY: The Nanotech War
VOY: String Theory 1
VOY: String Theory 2
VOY: Distant Shores anthology
VOY: String Theory 3 2006

ENT: Broken Bow novelization
ENT: By the Book
ENT: Shockwave novelization
ENT: What Price Honor?
ENT: Surak's Soul
ENT: The Expanse novelization
ENT: Daedalus
ENT: Daedalus's Children
ENT: Rosetta
ENT: Last Full Measure 2006

These really don't fit the discussion:
Gateways: What Lay Beyond (anth)
ST09: Star Trek (2009) novelization
ST09: SF Academy: Delta Anomaly
ST09: SF Academy: The Edge
ST09: SF Academy: The Gemini Agent
ST09: SF Academy: The Assassination Game
ST09: SF Academy: TBA


Forty of the "familiar paradigm" novels are TOS, twenty-five are TNG, three are DS9, eight are VOY, and ten are ENT.

But even more telling than that is the date of the LATEST NEW NOVEL in the "familiar paradigm": TOS is 2012, TNG is 2007, DS9 is 2005, VOY is 2006, and ENT is 2006.

In fact, since the latest non-TOS familiar paradigm novel (TNG in 2007), there have been ten TOS novels published.

In the last five years? Only TOS novels are in the "familiar paradigm" category.

Maybe I'm not as wrong as you think?