Naomi wildman's dead counterpart

[ed629]

so did they give her a proper burial and bend samantha's mind (sending one Naomi off in a torpedo coffin whilst holding the other Naomi in her arms)

I always thought this could have been an interesting subject around the concept of morality and mortality (similar to Tuvix) certainly there was room to examine how this kind of freaky parrallel existence could affect someones mental state (Samantha inparticular) but neither she nor Kim had any kind of story that explored this (it was obviously easier for Kim since he didn't have a dead equivelant on board to freak him out) but surely Samantha found the idea of a dead version of her child on board very disturbing - presumably they got rid of it....right

i don't really have a question - just thought it was an intersting meta-episode - one that could have provided a great, profound discussion about the nature of what true existence is.....but they never bothered (and yet found time to give Torres an unrealistic depression from nowhere episode)

anyway

Harry seems like the kind of guy that would molest his dead self only to see what it's like.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I once had line "YOU CAN'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO!!! YOU'RE NOT MY REAL MOTHER!!!" spake by Naomi in a dire rewrite of Fury.

Good times.

Have you ever tried to give a kid a puppy to replace one that played in traffic unsuccessfully?

Samantha is a grown woman and an adult, playing with her feeling and memories is the act of monster, which Janeway discovered much later in latent Image... And honestly it's not like she got off on that sort of treatment in Workforce when it was did unto her.

Actually, she got off a lot in Workforce.

When you move into a new apartment/house with someone, you're supposed to christen every room in the house.

I can't see that trim going out of fashion in the next 400 years.

 

[Guy Gardener]

so did they give her a proper burial and bend samantha's mind (sending one Naomi off in a torpedo coffin whilst holding the other Naomi in her arms)

I always thought this could have been an interesting subject around the concept of morality and mortality (similar to Tuvix) certainly there was room to examine how this kind of freaky parrallel existence could affect someones mental state (Samantha inparticular) but neither she nor Kim had any kind of story that explored this (it was obviously easier for Kim since he didn't have a dead equivelant on board to freak him out) but surely Samantha found the idea of a dead version of her child on board very disturbing - presumably they got rid of it....right

i don't really have a question - just thought it was an intersting meta-episode - one that could have provided a great, profound discussion about the nature of what true existence is.....but they never bothered (and yet found time to give Torres an unrealistic depression from nowhere episode)

anyway

Harry seems like the kind of guy that would molest his dead self only to see what it's like.

He kept his hands to himself in Demon.

And that letter he sent to his younger impressionable incarnation in Timeless could have gone quite differently.

"Her name is Tessa, now she's going to be really attracted to Chakotay, you have to cockblock that whole thing and get in there first because she's awesome and they got this soulmates buillshit going if you give them half a chance, which just makes me vomit. By the way, look at this, you're going to get this growth on your balls that you really should get some to look at before it's too later... That's right Harry I'm a Uniballer now. I'm a uniballer because you're too self conciousness to see a doctor about how... Harry, are you licking the screen? I know we've always tried to get down there but this doesn't count."

 

[hux]

I don't think an episode that explores the issue would be particularly interesting.

well i've just always thought Tuvix was the most grown up episode of Voyager (possibly of any series) though i wouldn't necessarily describe it as the most entertaining and it seems to me that the issues raised by that episdodes dillema were the reason why it was the most grown up

similar issues could have been raised regarding Samantha giving birth to a child that died but then getting a parrallel universe copy of it - may have been a dark episode but Voyager needed more of those imo (and it didn't need to be immediate - could have been brought up in a later season)

though i guess it depends on how much their life has diverged from the original - if you had a girlfriend who died then one from another universe turned up but had lived a radically different life to your girlfriend - then is she the same person? - if, on the other hand, the only difference between them is that one of them had toast instead of cereal that morning then you'd probably accept she was the same person - is this not fascinating, mind bending stuff - the nature of identity and the undertsanding of what truly makes an existence unique - it's the very basis of star trek-ness, is it not

just me?

would have liked this kind of thing to have been explored a little more by the show (but not too often obviously...can't beat a good old fashioned, shoot at the unfriendly aliens but later it turns out their ok after all, episode)

 

[Lord Manitou]

Most of the posts in this thread are confused. First their was not an alternate timeline created and, essentially, the two ships that divided itself from one were not different from each other.
Voyager systems did an analyses of the probability of survival when it sensed the Bidiian ships in the vicinity beyond the nebula. This was the only logical solution. The only difference when the two ships formed was that B'Ellana initially didn't resort to proton bursts.
The proof of existence of the two ships was so closed the Bidiians could not see this.

 

[Ethros]

Most of the posts in this thread are confused. First their was not an alternate timeline created and, essentially, the two ships that divided itself from one were not different from each other.

This.

I hate it when people refer to "alternate Kim" and him being from an alternate universe.
Kinda like how "Australia was the last country to join the United Earth" has become almost accepted fanon (even the one of the ENT relaunch books used this) when Dr Crusher was just using it as an example- "What if one nation, let's say Australia, had not joined...?"


Anyway, it wasn't like there was Voyager A and Voyager B, it was just Voyager A flying along, and then it suddenly became Voyager A1 and Voyager A2

 

[Guy Gardener]

The ships didn't divide Manitou.

One spawned the other.

I've already given the evidence at least twice, if you want to argue, please present evidence.

 

[tighr]

if you had a girlfriend who died then one from another universe turned up but had lived a radically different life to your girlfriend - then is she the same person? - if, on the other hand, the only difference between them is that one of them had toast instead of cereal that morning then you'd probably accept she was the same person.

I'm in complete agreement with this.

 

[Guy Gardener]

But what if the first girlfriend from your home universe was still alive?

"it's not cheating if it's you honey."

20 years ago an Australian Sketch comedy show cast a little light on the Patty Duke Show saying that "Identical Cousins" is bullshit and impossible, even if the sisters who produced those identical cousins were twins themselves.

According to the skit, the mothers, who were twins, would routinely "switch" dates/husbands when they were bored/curious for a lark, and that's why Patty and Cathy are dead ringers, because they have the same father laying pipe into twins who he never noticed were two entirely different women.

Men are pigs.

 

[Relayer1]

though i guess it depends on how much their life has diverged from the original - if you had a girlfriend who died then one from another universe turned up but had lived a radically different life to your girlfriend - then is she the same person? - if, on the other hand, the only difference between them is that one of them had toast instead of cereal that morning then you'd probably accept she was the same person

Not me - cereal eating freak !

 

[Sandoval]

Harry seems like the kind of guy that would molest his dead self only to see what it's like.

Don't pretend you wouldn't try it as well it the opportunity arose.

(Molesting your dead self I mean not molesting a dead Harry Kim.)

 

[Guy Gardener]

Why stop just because I'm dead?

They're making Dollhouse comics.

Yes, "Dollhouse".

So after the end of the world, the heroes afraid that they wouldn't survive to achieve they mission objectives made numerous copies of their personalties and imprinted them onto dozens of different bodies and told them all to go save the world, but try not to get killed. So a few years latter and one of the characters from the Tv show "Ivy" I think, there's three of them hanging out in a sccobie doo van going on missions trying to stop the Apocalypse... So, the two skinny pretty Ivy's (A boy and a girl) are hookiung up, and the fat Ivy isn't, who is grumpy, because she knows that she wouldn't sleep with her self either... No matter how she begs, because all three of them are an incredibly shallow person,

 

[tighr]

They're making Dollhouse comics.

Yes, "Dollhouse".

Is this for real?

 

[Lord Manitou]

Guy just succeeded to staple Naomi onto the chicken. And this is getting us nowhere. To make the show presentable one spawned the other

 

[hux]

I'm bumping this because it's a fascinating subject. And also because most of the discussion veered off into Kim having sex with himself territory (as most threads do).

So did duplicate Naomi get an official funeral or did they just stash her some place until the could put her in a ditch on some planet away from Samantha's eyes?

I wish they'd explored this in a later episode. If B'Elanna can get an entire depression episode because some Maquis friends died a billion miles away, surely Samantha could have had an episode to look at the emotional trauma of having a lifeless version of her child on board.

If they kept it then surely Naomi has some ready made organs in case she ever needs them. Keep em in a freezer.

Doesn't Voyager recycle everything?

 

[Guy Gardener]

The front page on the website truncates the thread titles when it teasers what the most recently posted on thread is in a subforum.

All I saw was: "Naomi Wildman's dead"

I rationally agreed with fate that Scarlet Pomers' time was most likely up since she was probably depressed about approaching 30 and did something stupid, and/or careless.

(She's 26.)

 

[Sparkle Fabulosa]

^ Yeah I thought something happened to her as well. I'm like "We can't lose another one!" And I immediately thought she fell back into her eating disorder. Btw, loved her on Reba!

 

[Quinton O'Connor]

Fun fact, Scarlet Pomers was (is? Not sure, sadly!) best friends growing up with a girl I used to hang out with briefly here in Florida.

 

[borgboy]

There is a morbid logic at keeping the dead baby Naomi in deep freeze for potential organ transplants to the live Naomi.
I quite like the image of Samantha holding baby Naomi while watching the dead baby sent off in a space coffin. I'd imagine psychologically it would be like having twins and losing one of them.

For what it's worth on the subject of Kes and Fury, the String Theory trilogy of novels does explain away Kes's ooc behavior in a satisfying if confusing way.

 

[Guy Gardener]

For species they haven't met an hour ago, hello Neelix's Lungs, growing new organs is not difficult.

Besides, unless they tricked the corpse into still growing up like it was a living girl, the newborn organs would be too small.