grammar rule help needed.

[AFEK ESLCAFE W]

Surely, they could not have been no worse than TNG's "Encounter at Farpoint"?

Is the above use of punctuation after the quotation marks used correctly? I've learned way back in college that the punctuation was supposed to be in the quotation, but when it comes to the example above the quotation mark ends with the title at the end of the sentence.

I placed the question mark at the very end so as not to confuse the reader that that was supposed to be part of the original title such as "Who Framed Roger Rabbit?"

 

[Pingfah]

It is used correctly. But even if it hadn't been, that would have been the least of the problems with that sentence.

 

[Trekker4747]

In cases like that, and in fact in most cases, I put the punctuation mark outside of the quotation mark. It's my feeling that if the punctuation mark is inside the quotation then it can be implied the punctuation is part of the quote itself. If that is not the case, or it's a neutral punctuation (a period) then I leave it inside.

In your example, the "?" being inside the quote would imply that the name of the episode was "Encounter at Farpoint?" which, obviously, isn't correct.

This can become even more complicated when there's punctuation inside the quote that contradicts the "tone" of the sentence. I don't believe "Q Who" and "Who Watches the Watchers" end with a "?" but let us say they did, and were used in a sentence that was a statement.

I like the episode "Who Watches the Watchers?"

That's just awkward looking, and incorrect.

But so is:

I like the episode "Who Watches the Watchers?".

Grammar is tricky sometimes.

 

[Admiral Shran]

As a former English Composition teacher I can tell you that these are some good rules to follow....

1.) Periods and commas always go inside quotation marks, even inside single quotes.

Examples:
The sign changed from "Walk," to "Don't Walk," to "Walk" again within 30 seconds.

She said, "Hurry up."

She said, "He said, 'Hurry up.'"

2.) The placement of question marks with quotes follows logic. If a question is in quotation marks, the question mark should be placed inside the quotation marks.

Examples:
She asked, "Will you still be my friend?"

Do you agree with the saying, "All's fair in love and war"?
Here the question is outside the quote.

3.) When you have a question outside quoted material AND inside quoted material, use only one question mark and place it inside the quotation mark.

Example:
Did she say, "May I go?"

4.) Use single quotation marks for quotes within quotes. Note that the period goes inside all quote marks.

Example:
He said, "Emily said, 'Do not treat me that way.'"

Therefore, since your sentence does not contain a question within the quotation, the placement of the question mark outside the quotation marks is correct.

Grammar is indeed tricky.

Thus endth the lesson.

 

[Pingfah]

This can become even more complicated when there's punctuation inside the quote that contradicts the "tone" of the sentence. I don't believe "Q Who" and "Who Watches the Watchers" end with a "?" but let us say they did, and were used in a sentence that was a statement.

I like the episode "Who Watches the Watchers?"

That's just awkward looking, and incorrect.

Er no, it is not incorrect. The question mark inside the quotes is enough to conclude the sentence, you do not need a period after the quotes.

 

[AFEK ESLCAFE W]

Now I know. And knowing is half the...

 

[AFEK ESLCAFE W]

This can become even more complicated when there's punctuation inside the quote that contradicts the "tone" of the sentence. I don't believe "Q Who" and "Who Watches the Watchers" end with a "?" but let us say they did, and were used in a sentence that was a statement.

I like the episode "Who Watches the Watchers?"

That's just awkward looking, and incorrect.

Er no, it is not incorrect. The question mark inside the quotes is enough to conclude the sentence, you do not need a period after the quotes.

Come again? Is the above quote correct or incorrect?

 

[captcalhoun]

American grammar. yuck.

I was taught that you put the punctuation after the quote if it's not part of the quote.

For example: The sign changed from "Walk", to "Don't Walk", to "Walk" again within 30 seconds.

because the comma is not part of the sign saying 'walk'.

if a sign says "Walk, don't run", that's fine to have the comma in there, but you don't put the comma at the end in the quote. it looks awkward and all kinds of wrong.

 

[Pingfah]

This can become even more complicated when there's punctuation inside the quote that contradicts the "tone" of the sentence. I don't believe "Q Who" and "Who Watches the Watchers" end with a "?" but let us say they did, and were used in a sentence that was a statement.

I like the episode "Who Watches the Watchers?"

That's just awkward looking, and incorrect.

Er no, it is not incorrect. The question mark inside the quotes is enough to conclude the sentence, you do not need a period after the quotes.

Come again? Is the above quote correct or incorrect?

In his case, he is saying the question mark is part of the title of the episode, so it goes inside the quotes, and is also sufficient to end the sentence. Like the "Who Framed Roger Rabbit?" example you pointed out.

In your case, the question mark was not part of the title of the episode, so it goes outside the quotes.

 

[Admiral Shran]

it looks awkward and all kinds of wrong.

Welcome to American English. Hell, welcome to English, period!

But it is correct to always put the commas inside quotation marks. Trust me, I had to teach it like that for years.

 

[AFEK ESLCAFE W]

Er no, it is not incorrect. The question mark inside the quotes is enough to conclude the sentence, you do not need a period after the quotes.

Come again? Is the above quote correct or incorrect?

In his case, he is saying the question mark is part of the title of the episode, so it goes inside the quotes, and is also sufficient to end the sentence. Like the "Who Framed Roger Rabbit?" example you pointed out.

In your case, the question mark was not part of the title of the episode, so it goes outside the quotes.

I got it now.

Thanks.

 

[Pingfah]

Come again? Is the above quote correct or incorrect?

In his case, he is saying the question mark is part of the title of the episode, so it goes inside the quotes, and is also sufficient to end the sentence. Like the "Who Framed Roger Rabbit?" example you pointed out.

In your case, the question mark was not part of the title of the episode, so it goes outside the quotes.

I got it now.

Thanks.

Although your original sentence should have been either:

Surely they could not have been worse than TNG's "Encounter at Farpoint"?

OR

Surely they could have been no worse than TNG's "Encounter at Farpoint"?

 

[Alidar Jarok]

^ or Surely, they could not have been any worse than TNG's "Encounter at Farpoint"?

American grammar. yuck.

I was taught that you put the punctuation after the quote if it's not part of the quote.

For example: The sign changed from "Walk", to "Don't Walk", to "Walk" again within 30 seconds.

Yeah, but in order for that to be correct, it should be 'walk' and 'don't walk'. Otherwise, it's "walk" and "don't walk." I agree that putting the punctuation on the outside makes more sense, but I like the double marks (i.e., quotation marks) that America uses.

 

[Deckerd]

You would all be in deep trouble trying to write an academic paper in the UK.

Apart from the British posters, of course.

 

[Tora Ziyal]

Welcome to American English. Hell, welcome to English, period!

But it is correct to always put the commas inside quotation marks. Trust me, I had to teach it like that for years.

I learned and taught it like that for years, too. However, British punctuation rules are not entirely the same as American punctuation rules. The placement of commas inside/outside quotation marks is a good example of one that differs.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

The rules about quotes are well and good for most purposes, but when trying to explain anything related to programming, I keep punctuation out of quotes, so someone reading it doesn't think the comma or period or whatever is part of the quote.

For instance:

To store the value of variable y into variable x, enter "x=y".

If I put the period inside the quote, you know someone would think it's part of the command to enter.

My preference is, of course, to use a <code> or <pre> tag to show code examples in isolation, but that's not always practical and it doesn't usually work in email.

When it comes to writing anything else, though, I use the accepted rules.

 

[Goliath]

You would all be in deep trouble trying to write an academic paper in the UK.

Apart from the British posters, of course.

Yes. But British English is pants.

 

[Deckerd]

Happy New Year, mon brave! You've been sadly pissed.


sorry that should have read missed.

 

[Goliath]

No, you were right the first time.

And Happy New year to you too!

 

[RoJoHen]

For example: The sign changed from "Walk", to "Don't Walk", to "Walk" again within 30 seconds.

To be fair, this sentence would be perfectly fine if you got rid of the commas altogether.