A.V.I.A.F.
Captain
Very true! They might have had Ricardo Montalban play Gary 7's gardener, Julio. Kirk and Spock stop by to see how Gary is doing and Spock inquires about Julio's weeding technique.
Space Seed. Seems like just the middle of a story.
- Thread starter Queen Mab
- Start date
Very true! They might have had Ricardo Montalban play Gary 7's gardener, Julio. Kirk and Spock stop by to see how Gary is doing and Spock inquires about Julio's weeding technique.
Who cares, if he does so convincingly? He didn't, of course.
"Ethnic" types were often cast as any random ethnicity. I believe Montalban played a Japanese fellow in Hawaii 5-0.
Stories need not fill in the complete back story. There is only so much time to address things when producing a one hour TV episode. I am in agreement with those that the story for Space Seed was fine as it was. The ending left us with a mystery about what would happen to Khan and his cohorts but it was a great idea as it obviously created room for the sequel movie.
A.V.I.A.F.
Captain
It is all relevant to how much time has passed. Who's to say how people in the future will evaluate people and events that we currently in the present perceive as unequivocally evil or good for that matter. Time distances people emotionally and intellectually from a given person and/or event in history. Greater objectivity, or at the very least a much diminished subjective perception usually takes place. How many people living today react strongly to the numerous battles and civilian slaughters that characterized in-fighting between various Earls and Dukes of the Protestant Reformation on issues which many today would deem trivial (consubstantiation versus transubstantiation, for example)?
...And thus the story would pose no problems for a scriptwriter writing for an audience of the 2060s, or for one indicating that heroes of the 2260s would see only the best sides of a bad guy. It's the audience of the 2010s (or the 1960s) that would have a hard time sharing this admiration of a 20th century tyrant when "co-living" the age of his tyranny through a story taking place in the 20th century.
Timo Saloniemi
Timo Saloniemi
"Space Seed" seemed complete enough to me, like any other episode. It kind of leaves you wondering what would become of them, which I think is a good thing.
A.V.I.A.F.
Captain
I thought you were speaking from the point of view of the officers of the Enterprise who are living this 200 years after the war and not from the point of view of the audience in the 1960 or 2010s.
That whole scene with McCoy, Scotty, and Kirk admiring Khan (much to Spock's dismay) was meant to convey the idea that these were present-day men looking back on a period in history which was so distant to them that they could appraise it more objectively.
And that worked well IMHO, and enriched the episode in a way basically unique to scifi and fantasy stories. More down-to-earth genres would have more trouble distancing the heroes from today's moral norms without distancing them from the audience.
However, the thread was about expanding the story with prequels and sequels, and that's where the writer would run into difficulties with the controversial nature of the prequel "hero", no matter whether he were writing for the 1960s or the 2010s.
Timo Saloniemi
However, the thread was about expanding the story with prequels and sequels, and that's where the writer would run into difficulties with the controversial nature of the prequel "hero", no matter whether he were writing for the 1960s or the 2010s.
Timo Saloniemi
A.V.I.A.F.
Captain
Granted, given that a prequel taking place in the late 20th century to 1960s or 1980s audience "co-living" the period might seem awkward, I wonder if audiences would have been that bothered. After all, there is still the fact that Khan and company circa 1990s are in fact fictitious.
That would have made a prequel doubly difficult to swallow: not only does it force us to follow the atrocities of a character we intensely dislike, but it isn't even true to what we can see out the window.
Trek in general has tried to steer around the concept that it is unreal. When our heroes visit a time the audience has already experienced, it is only very subtly different from reality (that is, if there's a gross difference, it's a "secret", such as Henry Starling getting his ideas from outer space and the future, or Gary Seven pulling the strings for USAF space mishaps). That's becoming increasingly difficult as the audience experiences new times and outruns or overruns Star Trek "predictions". But the effort to hide the unreality of Trek is still there; no writer will want to come out and unambiguously state that all of Star Trek is taking place in a different universe and will never be part of ours.
I guess stories set in the 1990s will eventually become fair game again, as the audience will "forget" about that decade. Doing a trilogy on Khan in the 1960s, or expanding the story into one in the 1980s or even 2010s, would still be a bit too daring in the suspension-of-disbelief sense.
Timo Saloniemi
Trek in general has tried to steer around the concept that it is unreal. When our heroes visit a time the audience has already experienced, it is only very subtly different from reality (that is, if there's a gross difference, it's a "secret", such as Henry Starling getting his ideas from outer space and the future, or Gary Seven pulling the strings for USAF space mishaps). That's becoming increasingly difficult as the audience experiences new times and outruns or overruns Star Trek "predictions". But the effort to hide the unreality of Trek is still there; no writer will want to come out and unambiguously state that all of Star Trek is taking place in a different universe and will never be part of ours.
I guess stories set in the 1990s will eventually become fair game again, as the audience will "forget" about that decade. Doing a trilogy on Khan in the 1960s, or expanding the story into one in the 1980s or even 2010s, would still be a bit too daring in the suspension-of-disbelief sense.
Timo Saloniemi
Agreed. I've never felt the episode incomplete. And after TWoK I've had no real interest to see more either.
While it is true that the story as it is told in the episode is complete that doesn't negate the fact that it was only one chapter of a larger story. Even at the end Spock wonders what kind of civilization Khan would create on Ceti Alpha V. So it sounds like there was more of the story to tell...and there was! Nicholas Meyer thought so too and that is why returned to Khan in Star Trek II.
We have seen the middle of Khan's story....(Space Seed) and we have seen the end of Khan's story ...(Wrath of Khan) but we have not seen the beginning of his story.
I see what you're saying. From the perspective of the Enterprise crew (the focus of the series) that was all there was to their story...
A.V.I.A.F.
Captain
Exactly. I think that given the trend of the last 15 or so years, we have become a little prequel-obsessed. Some prequels are great ideas, others are bad. I am not saying that a Khan prequel would necessarily be bad, but what the OP feels is missing would be best presented in a prequel and not jammed into a 50 odd minute episode.
For those intrigued by learning something more of Khan's story before he encountered the USS Enterprise, I suggest you go read the Khan novels out out by Pocket Books some years ago. They are quite good and are a nice substitute for an onscreen Khan origin story.
It's all fictitious..
Star Trek shows/movies IMO work better when the world is based of the 1960's-70's-80's
The way the world is going in last 2 decades dont seem Star Trek-like
I have to agree with spockrocks and Warped9 here, Space Seed always felt funny to me...like it was incomplete. There was definately a backstory to it or something that was left out.
But I will say Montalban had a real screen presence here. You knew that he was going to be trouble for Kirk...I mean, real trouble. For as much fun is made of Ricardo, the guy had real skills.
But I will say Montalban had a real screen presence here. You knew that he was going to be trouble for Kirk...I mean, real trouble. For as much fun is made of Ricardo, the guy had real skills.
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