Before Dishonour....seriously?!

[MatthiasRussell]

Just noticed the German cover. Am I alone in preferring the German cover? In the original, Seven looks sad and grief-stricken. The German one is dynamic and has Seven fearful/shocked about what is coming. It is like the original is set after the book and the German one before, making the latter more appealing on a book shelf. Only change I would have made, show the cube eating Pluto. Ooops, was that a spoiler!?!
http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Before_Dishonor

 

[MatthiasRussell]

-sorry posting error-

 

[JWolf]

Just noticed the German cover. Am I alone in preferring the German cover? In the original, Seven looks sad and grief-stricken. The German one is dynamic and has Seven fearful/shocked about what is coming. It is like the original is set after the book and the German one before, making the latter more appealing on a book shelf. Only change I would have made, show the cube eating Pluto. Ooops, was that a spoiler!?!
http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Before_Dishonor

If there's going to be a better cover, it'll be the German cover that's better. So why is it that the German cover's are better? Why can't we get them too?

 

[Therin of Andor]

So why is it that the German cover's are better?

20/20 hindsight?

The German covers come out after months/years of fannish debate as to what's supposedly "wrong" with the originals.

Why can't we get them too?

We can! I bought a cool German translation of "Martyr" just to get an Ensign Janos cover from amazon.de

 

[MattWallace]

Alright, you win. All authors write all characters equally well. Women now, then and in the future are, were and will be portrayed with exactly the same respect as the male characters. Any perception of any bias now or in the future is simply signs of ignorance on the part of the perceptor.

All done now.

Merry Christmas everyone. I'm going for a drink.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Any perception of any bias now or in the future is simply signs of ignorance on the part of the perceptor.

Certainly can be. That's why you need some hard evidence before you trample all over people's feelings with sweeping, negative statements.

 

[MatthiasRussell]

So why is it that the German cover's are better?

20/20 hindsight?

The German covers come out after months/years of fannish debate as to what's supposedly "wrong" with the originals.

Why can't we get them too?

We can! I bought a cool German translation of "Martyr" just to get an Ensign Janos cover from amazon.de

Perhaps they should just go ahead and let the Germans make the original cover in anticipation of it being better than what Americans will come up with since I have yet to see a cover where I didn't like the German one better. Y'know, unpimp ze star trek.

I do love those Janos covers. Ahhh Janos, another dead but not dead character.

 

[Captain Robert April]

I'm not sure you can include that one. We don't actually know if there was a death.

Wait, wait. So you aren't sure if he is dead but you are certain Janeway is?

We know Janeway is dead. We know there's a way to bring her back. What I'm saying is let her stay dead.

Okay, now I really want her brought back.

 

[DGCatAniSiri]

Just noticed the German cover. Am I alone in preferring the German cover? In the original, Seven looks sad and grief-stricken. The German one is dynamic and has Seven fearful/shocked about what is coming. It is like the original is set after the book and the German one before, making the latter more appealing on a book shelf. Only change I would have made, show the cube eating Pluto. Ooops, was that a spoiler!?!
http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Before_Dishonor

I like it better too, though more because of the Borg cube, making it that there is at least an element from TNG on the cover of a TNG novel, (even if it is one shared with Voyager) which was my biggest gripe about the American cover, that it was a TNG novel with only a Voyager-created character on the cover. Yeah, I know it's a superficial complaint, but it bugged me all the same.

 

[Therin of Andor]

I like it better too, though more because of the Borg cube, making it that there is at least an element from TNG on the cover of a TNG novel...

There is a Borg Cube on the US cover. A bloody big one! Or a very close one.

 

[DGCatAniSiri]

I like it better too, though more because of the Borg cube, making it that there is at least an element from TNG on the cover of a TNG novel...

There is a Borg Cube on the US cover. A bloody big one! Or a very close one.

...Huh. So you're right. It's placed close enough to the edges of the front cover, though, that I mistook it for a background behind Seven until you pointed it out. So I'm still against the cover of the American version, just based upon the layout, rather than the elements.

 

[MatthiasRussell]

I like it better too, though more because of the Borg cube, making it that there is at least an element from TNG on the cover of a TNG novel...

There is a Borg Cube on the US cover. A bloody big one! Or a very close one.

It might not be a big one. We just know it is bigger than Seven.

 

[JD]

Let's not forget the very first female captain we saw. The Saratoga was disabled by the whale probe in TVH. Last we saw of her, she was calling for someone to help her. When we later saw that captain of the Yorktown, who was in a similar situation, he said that they were trying to generate power with a makeshift sloar sail (should be panel but let's assume he meant what he said). In his care, he's doing something to help himself and his crew and she's asking someone to rescue her.

But in the later books she popped up as the Commander of all of Starfleet, so in this case the books have actually moved the character to a significantly stronger position from when we saw her on screen. Same goes for Sonya Gomez, who is now Captain of the SCE ship Da Vinci in the post-Destiny time frame. They've also moved up Ro, introduced a new female chief of Security for the EE, made Uhura the head of Starfleet Intelligence, given Riker a female XO, created a new UFP President, and given us three female Romulan leaders, and a female Andorian leader. So I can't help but disagree very, very strongly with anyone who feels that there is even the slightest bit of sexism in Trek Lit. Same goes for Rascism, in the recent books we've seen Geordi promoted to Captain, we've gotten an Asian Admiral and a Hispanic Commodore both in the same series. We've also gotten an African American XO for Ezri, and I'm sure there are several other examples of minority characters in important roles that I am forgetting about at the moment.

So keeping Janeway relevant and interesting would have been a "challenge"? Why couldn't Janeway have changed her mind about going back to delta and decided to be the Fleet Admiral? Sisko couldn't have gone back to work without going through a divorce. The stories are compelling and interesting as is. However, I think out is silly to say these characters can't have amazing stories and careers while either having happy family lives or desk jobs.

For example, take Clive Cussler's protagonist Dirk Pitt. Most of those books had him in a job that put him in the center of the action while meeting new loves and occasionally watching them die. Now Pitt is married with kids and a government desk job. However, he still leaves his desk in assignments and has adventures just as good as in Cussler's earlier works. A desk and a family is not the death of a character's ability to be compelling, have adventures, and generate emotion from readers. Cussler and Pitt have proved that.

I think it's worth pointing out here that Picard is now married to Beverly with a son, and he's still out there commanding the Enterprise and getting into trouble.

 

[captcalhoun]

oh, hey, you know that movie Titanic?

the ship sinks.

 

[j3067]

oh, hey, you know that movie Titanic?

the ship sinks.

If anyone knows what Soylent Green really is it better be tagged as well.

 

[ClayinCA]

Charlton Heston was on Earth the whole time. Also, Norman's really his mother.

And they find Spock.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Where was the crew headed in "Destination: Moon"?

Why can't the Wicked Witch of the West take a bath?

 

[Killandra]

Just noticed the German cover. Am I alone in preferring the German cover? In the original, Seven looks sad and grief-stricken. The German one is dynamic and has Seven fearful/shocked about what is coming. It is like the original is set after the book and the German one before, making the latter more appealing on a book shelf. Only change I would have made, show the cube eating Pluto. Ooops, was that a spoiler!?!
http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Before_Dishonor

Matthias, I also thought the German cover was better...but being the book largely dealt with Janeway's fate, I find it a little upsetting that she doesn't have presence on the cover at all.

 

[Killandra]

MattWallace, please read Kristen's books. The 3 out so far have been excellent. Even if you don't like that she is gone, Janeway has left an amazing legacy. As a Voyager fan, you won't be disappointed. I think you will find that they are as good if not better than the best Voyager tv episodes.

Reading them will hopefully give you greater respect for the franshise. You may also be pleased to know the editor who choose to kill Janeway is no longer an editor there so perhaps you won't have to be so mad and/or disappointed knowing the person most responsible for the situation has moved on in her career.

I admit, the books are good and I do like some of the new characters, however...no one can or will ever be able to replace Janeway, period. I am hoping her return is somewhere in the future. I won't be holding my breath, but I admit I only read the books after learning about her death because my curiosity got the best of me.

When I first learned about her death, I boycotted Before Dishonor and any book that fell after it. My fiance hasn't given in like I have and simply refuses to buy another Trek book period until Janeway returns. I know many who are doing the same. But for those of you who can work up the urge to read them, the books are good, but there is a sense of loss on the Janeway fan's part. We keep foolishly hoping to turn the page and see her pop up even though we know it's not going to happen.

I've talked about the killing of female characters before elsewhere. I agree more men die in Trek and before Janeway was Sisko in Trek cannon so some fans may get the inclination the franchise has something against minority leaders. I don't believe that's the case personally, but I could just see where some fans may feel that way.

 

[Therin of Andor]

but being the book largely dealt with Janeway's fate, I find it a little upsetting that she doesn't have presence on the cover at all.

But that might have suggested the surprise twist that claimed her life. A Borg story, and a concerned looking Seven, misleads us that this novel might be Seven's final fate.