Is it just me, or are Vulcans a bunch of jerks?

[Anwar]

And originally, it seems more like the Federation was the "Earth Federation". As in, it was really a benign Terran Empire where the humans allowed aliens to work with them as weak/limited partners rather than just conquering them like the Klingons and Romulans.

It didn't really become solidly the multi-species Cooperative it's better known as until the TOS Movies and TNG.

 

[Greg Cox]

Heck, there was also that "Spock controls a guy through the wall" thing he never did again.

I recall him doing it twice. Once in Errand of Mercy and again in By Any Other Name (in which a reference is made back to Spock's talent for doing this in Errand of Mercy).

Actually, I think it was in "A Taste of Armageddon" and "By Any Other Name." And, yeah, in "By Any Other Name," they actually refer back to the time Spock did the same thing on Eminar VII.

 

[A.V.I.A.F.]

Heck, there was also that "Spock controls a guy through the wall" thing he never did again.

I recall him doing it twice. Once in Errand of Mercy and again in By Any Other Name (in which a reference is made back to Spock's talent for doing this in Errand of Mercy).

Actually, I think it was in "A Taste of Armageddon" and "By Any Other Name." And, yeah, in "By Any Other Name," they actually refer back to the time Spock did the same thing on Eminar VII.

Yes, that's right. Timewalker caught the error too. I tend to get the S1 episode titles mixed-up for some reason.

 

[T'Girl]

It didn't really become solidly the multi-species Cooperative it's better known as until the TOS Movies and TNG.

I thought that it was with D. C. Fontana's Journey to Babel, that the Federation was shown to have multiple equal partners, in a interstellar Cooperative. Although not so much co-operative at times.

 

[Greg Cox]

Yes, that's right. Timewalker caught the error too. I tend to get the S1 episode titles mixed-up for some reason.

I know how that goes. I tend to get "Tomorrow is Yesterday," "All Our Yesterdays," and "Return to Tomorrow" mixed up!

 

[xortex]

So if Spock has this power to control people, then the Vulcans surely must. In 'Omega Glory' he made that girl contact the ship just by suggesting it with a look.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Well they referred to Starfleet as UESPA and the only Federation that was referred to during the early episodes was the First Federation of Balok.

The first mention of Starfleet in Court Martial predates the UESPA in Tomorrow is Yesterday by six episodes. Kirk referring to the UESPA as "our authority" could just mean their authority in that (future) section of the Federation. Most fans would agree that there is going to be a United Earth at some point. And the Federation does show up two episodes later.

UESPA dates back to Charlie X. The mention of UESPA in Tomorrow Is Yesterday is probably a script artifact left over from it originally being planned to follow The Naked Time.

 

[T'Girl]

UESPA dates back to Charlie X. The mention of UESPA in Tomorrow Is Yesterday is probably a script artifact left over from it originally being planned to follow The Naked Time.

Kirk's Captain's log during Charlie X mentioned a report to U.S.F.A. Headquarters to notify them of the cargo vessel Antares loss.

 

[Nerys Myk]

UESPA dates back to Charlie X. The mention of UESPA in Tomorrow Is Yesterday is probably a script artifact left over from it originally being planned to follow The Naked Time.

Kirk's Captain's log during Charlie X mentioned a report to U.S.F.A. Headquarters to notify them of the cargo vessel Antares loss.

Memory Alpha says its UESPA ( pronouced phonetically Youspah) chakoteya.net says UFSA. Which is probably what the transcriber thought they heard. Not being native English speakers, they might have got it wrong. I'll guess we'll have to see if Sir Rhosis has the actual script handy.

 

[Elder Knight]

Quite often, the Vulcans seem most illogical.

 

[jayrath]

Oh, yeah, right, because we all know that ENT invented the idea that Vulcans still practice ritual fights to the death in order to win ownership of their mates. The Vulcans of TOS would never have been irrational enough to do anything like that.

TOS established that Vulcans aspired to rationality in principle but frequently fell short of that ideal. Even Spock was routinely portrayed as having emotional motivations that he simply wasn't willing to admit to. He wasn't so much a paragon of rationality as a paragon of rationalization, always able to make up logical-sounding excuses for his acts of stubbornness or affection or vanity or compassionate self-sacrifice.

In TOS, Spock's sometime emotionality was represented as a result of biology -- the fact that he was half-human. That was the conflict, that was the drama. In other words, he was never an example of Vulcan culture as a whole. As for the ritual sex fights, it's because Vulcans were set up as so rational that the result was drama. In other words, it's all about contrast. As soon as Vulcans are made into little more than ENT-style conflicted humans, eternally battling for control, we lose contrast, and drama is lessened. Considerably.

Where did TOS ever present the idea that "Vulcans aspired to rationality in principle but frequently fell short of that ideal" as a race? You're making that up. Name a single TOS full-Vulcan for whom that is true?

Or who died and made you Richard Arnold?

 

[xortex]

Ironically, Richard Arnold was used as a door stop throughout much of Enterprise's run. I believe he's still wedged under a door there somewhere.

More lily products for Brannon Braga. It's the difference between what seems right and what is right.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Heck, even in "Friday's Child" they call it the "Earth Federation".

Does that mean that Kirk had a Gundam stored somewhere on the Enterprise

 

[T'Girl]

Where did TOS ever present the idea that "Vulcans aspired to rationality in principle but frequently fell short of that ideal" as a race? You're making that up. Name a single TOS full-Vulcan for whom that is true?

Shall we start with T'Pring?

As Spock himself pointed out, there was no rational reason to prefer Stonn over Spock, but T'Pring wasn't being driven by rational thought. She wanted Stonn, and Stonn wanted her, her driving force was desire. Not logic.

I believe it was pretty obvious that Stonn was to be the champian, T'Pring's selection of Kirk was spur of the moment. The original plan (imho) was to have Stonn fight Spock, but that would involve exposing her lover to danger. So she gamed the system. Regardless of the result of the challange, Stonn would remain safe, and she would continue to have access to him. In her best estimation, the victor would leave the planet. Even if Spock claimed a "wedding night" with T'Pring, he would eventually be gone.

Assuming that T'Pring aspired to rationality in the first place, she wasn't using it that day, she was being governed by her emotions and her passions. Being guided by her love, fear, her own selfish desires (I will have your name, and your lands) are examples of irrational behavior.

 

[xortex]

The more that I think about it, it would have been interesting if the Vulcans that we saw on Enterprise were all held over Romulans - either hybrids or something in between which would make them natural a-holes. The Vulcans have the savage history and seething volcano underneath - Spock moreso obviously, but they always kept that reserved. Maybe there were some Romulans that didn't leave nor want to go for idiological reasons and differences.

 

[Anwar]

Heck, even in "Friday's Child" they call it the "Earth Federation".

Does that mean that Kirk had a Gundam stored somewhere on the Enterprise

Well, seeing how it was 10 years before the first Gundam maybe that instance is where Tomino got the name...

 

[MacLeod]

Vulcan's like any species depicted in ST have extremes. Even today some Humans are more emotionally driven than others, whilst others are more logical.

When making a decision, Do you listen to your heart or your head?

If you are debating with someone who is more driven by sound logic arguments, appealing to their emotions might not be the way to win them over.

 

[xortex]

Out of curiosity did GR write them as being emotionless or highly restrained and stoic? Does anybody have the TOS bible? They are after all alien. To me they were very oriental and exacting and a remote archetype. Enterprise turnes them into control freaks and whiny babies which is not alien enough for me. Alien means alien as in handle with special care. They approach everything from oblique angles and a;ways have something different and unexpected to say almost to the point of wondering how they know, but they are sensatives and telepaths even more so than Spock.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Nah, alien means from someplace you're not.

Remember Number One was originally the cold logical one. She was a human. Spock got that when the character was axed.

 

[Greg Cox]

Where did TOS ever present the idea that "Vulcans aspired to rationality in principle but frequently fell short of that ideal" as a race? You're making that up. Name a single TOS full-Vulcan for whom that is true?

Well, there was Sarek who didn't speak to his son for eighteen years because he disapproved of his career choice. And who concealed a serious heart condition from his wife.

And T'Pau, who insisted, for the sake of tradition, that Kirk fight Spock to death--even when it was very obvious that Kirk had no idea what he was getting into. (I mean, would it have killed her to make sure Kirk knew he was risking his life before he agreed to an obscure Vulcan ritual?)

And T'Pring and Stonn, who . . . well, we remember.

Basically, every full Vulcan who appeared on TOS, with the possible of exception of Surak in "The Savage Curtain."

And Surak is an interesting case. He's definitely portrayed in a very positive manner, but he does end up getting himself killed, leaving Kirk to win the conflict between good and evil. (Or so I recall; I haven't seen that episode in years.)

If the message of Star Trek was that we should be more like the Vulcans, then Surak would have shown Kirk and Yarnek the wisdom of his ways at the end of the story.