It never happened...

[Silvercrest]

Ha, REALLY? I assume this was his attempt to resolve Hawkman's history, but he went at it backward from everyone else.

The exchange was actually quite funny and a bit meta, it went something like this -

Badguy: So you are an archaeologist and a historian, so how you've never noticed that your past life makes no sense and that you aren't actually mentioned in any history books.

Hawkman; Well.. em.. holy crap you are right, how come I never noticed that before.

Badguy; EVERYTHING YOU KNOW IS WRONG!

2) Jack Kirby established that the Anti-Life Equation allows control over all living things. Jim Starlin established that the Anti-Life Equation is ALIVE. It's actually the Anti-Life Entity, a giant Grim Reaper. Starlin apparently operated on the educated assumption that anti-life = death. I guess this was his way of putting polish on Kirby's Fourth World. Uhhh, Jim? Did you know Jack died not long after this was published? Don't kid yourself that this was coincidence.

He uses this idea again in his "death of the new gods" mini-series that is suppose to lead into Final Crisis but because Morrison had no idea what was in the series does not link up in any way - moreover, Morrison wanted the New Gods not to be used anywhere before final crisis but referenced this series when saying how they were "passed around like syphilis".

I heard about that, but if one writer keeps bringing up an idea and everyone else continues to pretend it "never happened", it should get a mention.

I think it should be pointed out that none of it ever happened.

Well, yeah, except for the parts that did happen; i.e. canon. Or the things that we're choosing to not to claim didn't happen. Things that fictionally happened (or that weren't made to unhappen), but only happened metafictionally in the sense that---

brain melts down


Reality check! Reality check! Are we still on Earth-Prime?

 

[Nerys Myk]

Has Flash Thompson's tour in Vietnam and related plotlines been mentioned?

 

[Silvercrest]

He was in the same unit as Frank Castle, right?

 

[Mike Farley]

No matter what war you tie these characters to, as time passes the link becomes less and less credible. What Marvel needs is a fictional war that they can drag along with them as time passes. One that ALWAYS takes place 7-10 years before FF#1.

 

[JoeZhang]

Has Flash Thompson's tour in Vietnam and related plotlines been mentioned?

That to me is simply backstory that is updatable to the Gulf war rather than anything intrinsically important to the character.

He was in the same unit as Frank Castle, right?

The most recent Punisher series seems to indicate that he's now a gulf war vet as well. I think it's slightly more arguable, that Vietnam is more important to him but then again he's never been the deepest of characters.

 

[Myasishchev]

Oh yeah, I remember another one. The post Zero-Hour "Archie" Legion was pretty obviously leading up to a reveal that R.J. Brande was the Martian Manhunter. Brande was very nostalgic about 20th century super heroes (including many artifacts from that era in his office); Brande named "Mon'el" based on a Martian name; Brande was shown to have some telepathic ability near the end of the run. Abnett and Lanning came on and all of that was forgotten and never followed up on, but it was pretty clear where the story was going.

Heh. Reminds me of that throwaway cameo at Bouncing Boy and Orgy Girl's wedding. I always thought it was weird that J'onn was alive and well in the 30th Century but never did anything. "Darkseid's back? I'm too old for this shit."

Speaking of the Legion, while I'm not going to offer anything close to unqualified praise for Shooter's run on the Threeboot--I like it better than most, but it is a mess*--but I do think the Evil Projectra/Cosmic Boy-returns-from-the-future story he had planned would've been worth reading.

Anyway, other important things:

• I really would have liked to have seen Neil Gaiman finish his Miracleman run. What was gonna happen with Young Miracleman? The profoundly changed world? We'll never know. On the other hand, the transhumanist dramedy wasn't as good as the eschaton that proceeded it, so it's not like if Alan Moore hadn't finished his run. That would've been tragic; as it stands, it's just kind of annoying, I suppose.
• I've read some reports and rumors of reports regarding Kryptonians being remade into non-humanoid aliens following Crisis. But I've never been able to confirm this compelling but difficult idea. If John Byrne ever did any designs, I'd kill a man to see them. This isn't really an abandoned published story, but an abandoned concept (that might never have been dreamed up in the first place).
• My understanding is that JMS' Squadron Supreme will never be finished, and that the Ultimate Power crossover fucked it up pretty badly anyway. I have no idea about the latter, I stopped catching up on Supreme Power/SS when I realized there was no ending, and I wouldn't have read UP in the first place.
• Who the fuck was the man from Planet Fiction in Planetary? NEVER BROUGHT UP AGAIN.

*Fun fact: Saturn Girl likes slave play. Wait, have I done this schtick already?

 

[captcalhoun]

a lot of you people have actually missed the point of the article-series over at CBR. it's not stories that just never got done or got finished, it's more accurately stories where someone wrote something and then someone actively came along and said, "that's a load of bollocks, that's not what happened", like Mark Millar saying in Ultimate Avengers Vs New Ultimates that the two Orson Scott Card Ultimate Iron Man series were a cartoon in the UMU or the writer who changed Will Magnus and the Metal Men so that Magnus was on drugs when he thought he'd become a robot too.

it'd be like that Sand Superman story being done, it being revealed that yes, it was Sand Superman all those years and then someone, say Geoff Johns, coming along later and saying, no, Lois was in a coma and trippin' and all that stuff about a sand Superman was her fever dreams.

 

[the G-man]

a lot of you people have actually missed the point of the article-series over at CBR. it's not stories that just never got done or got finished, it's more accurately stories where someone wrote something and then someone actively came along and said, "that's a load of bollocks, that's not what happened",...

This.

 

[Greg Cox]

To be fair, the very first story cited in that article is an example of a storyline that was both never finished and retconned away afterwards. Engelhart's "Occult History" storyline in DOCTOR STRANGE was aborted just as it was warming up, then a retcon was employed to sweep away any loose ends . . . . like Clea having slept with Benjamin Franklin!

 

[Myasishchev]

I'm pretty sure I'll just talk tangentially appropriate nonsense, like I usually do.

Anyway, my Jim Shooter Legion fits that definition of being never finished and retconned. After LSH vol. 5 (or 6, or whatever) #50, the Threeboot got shut down and nothing got resolved and the Retroboot Legion came and no one really liked it, but Levitz will probably be allowed to write about them till he dies.

P.S. Gary Frank did excellent work on Supreme Power. I'd actually forgotten about that when I was ragging on him in the New 52 thread.

 

[the G-man]

a lot of you people have actually missed the point of the article-series over at CBR. it's not stories that just never got done or got finished, it's more accurately stories where someone wrote something and then someone actively came along and said, "that's a load of bollocks, that's not what happened"...

To be fair, the very first story cited in that article is an example of a storyline that was both never finished and retconned away afterwards. Engelhart's "Occult History" storyline in DOCTOR STRANGE was aborted just as it was warming up, then a retcon was employed to sweep away any loose ends . . . . like Clea having slept with Benjamin Franklin!

But the article cited goes on to say:

• #19 sees Marv Wolfman (the book’s editor) become its writer as well as editor (with Alfredo Alcala as #19′s artist) and very quickly, the whole Ben Franklin/Clea deal is explained away as an illusion ...In #20, we learn that the destruction of Earth was ALSO an illusion/trick designed by an evil cabal of magicians to make Strange feel compelled to give up the role of Sorcerer Supreme

In other words, Englehart wrote something and then Wolfman actively came along and said, [in effect] "that's a load of bollocks, that's not what happened."

 

[Mike Farley]

John Byrne revealed that Lockjaw was not an actual dog, but the mutated form of an Inhuman, who could even--with extreme difficulty--speak.

Peter David later "revealed" that Lockjaw was, in fact, really a dog and it was all a prank on Ben Grimm pulled by the Inhumans--the Inhumans being well known jokesters.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Has Flash Thompson's tour in Vietnam and related plotlines been mentioned?

That to me is simply backstory that is updatable to the Gulf war rather than anything intrinsically important to the character.
.

So Flash managed to meet up with a woman from Southeast Asia while stationed in Southwest Asia?

 

[Greg Cox]

In other words, Englehart wrote something and then Wolfman actively came along and said, [in effect] "that's a load of bollocks, that's not what happened."

True, but the point is also that Englehart didn't get to finish his story. Indeed, he got about one issue into what was supposed to be a big year-long storyline before the whole thing was snuffed out.

The story was aborted and retconned away.

 

[Myasishchev]

John Byrne revealed that Lockjaw was not an actual dog, but the mutated form of an Inhuman, who could even--with extreme difficulty--speak.

Peter David later "revealed" that Lockjaw was, in fact, really a dog and it was all a prank on Ben Grimm pulled by the Inhumans--the Inhumans being well known jokesters.

Gorgon was pretty jolly.

 

[RJDiogenes]

I liked that Lockjaw plotline; shame it was retconned.

Another one I just remembered from Byrne's run was a Ben Grimm plotline that was leading up to an anniversary issue-- must have been number 250. The Thing had begun mutating again for some reason and went into hiding (there was a very touching finale to an issue of Marvel Two-In-One or The Thing where he's disappearing in the distance, with ominously distorted footprints in the foreground, saying, "Good-bye, cruel world."). Then he abruptly left the book and the anniversary issue was done by Stan Lee and John Buscema and Ben was his usual self; there was a throwaway line about the change being "in remission."

 

[Mike Farley]

Yeah, Shooter drove Byrne away because he took the Superman gig.

I think Roger Stern was working from Byrne's plot to finish up the Central City storyline, but I can only guess Stan wrote whatever the hell he wanted.

 

[Dark Gilligan]

I remember a Superman story from the early '70s in which it was revealed that he was over 100 years old but had no memory of it.

In the story Superman has been having nightmares of a life that never was. He randomly runs some tests on the rocket that carried him to Earth as an infant and discovers that it was built more than a century before. He never learns the truth.

The readers though are shown what happened. Krypton did indeed explode 100 years earlier than Superman believed. En route to Earth, the rocket lands on another planet altogether. There the infant Kal-El is found and adopted by a society of cavemen. He has no superpowers that we're aware of.

10 years later, society has evolved to the equivalent of the Roman Empire. By the time Kal-El is an adult, society has reached its 21 century, complete with super-science and flying cars. Kal-El marries and has a family.

It is discovered sometime later that Kal-El is himself the cause of his world's hyper-accelerated evolution. His presence "jump started" the intelligence of the cavemen who found him. The effect was world-wide. Nuclear war breaks out because of this revelation. Kal-El survives and spends the rest of his life wandering the ruins and waste.

Now 100 years old, Kal-El is found by his son who has discovered a "restart button" of sorts. The son uses his scientific skill to reverse-age Kal-El back into an infant again, then launches him away in the same rocket that brought him to this world a century before. Moments after Kal-El departs, his son's intelligenge begins to fade. The reader is left with the impression that the entire world will revert to it primitive state now that Kal-El's presence is gone.

The story ends where Superman's memory begins, with the crash landing in Smallville. He would never know of his past life.

I believe this story was retconned into an Elseworlds tale, but at the time it was first published it was regarded as Superman's actual history.

 

[RJDiogenes]

I remember that story. It may actually have been the late 60s, if my associated memories are valid. I seem to remember his clothes on that other world being a shirt that resembles the normal Superman shirt, but with orange pants with black pinstripes.

 

[Silvercrest]