Once Upon a Time (ABC) - 1x02 till the bitter end

[Sindatur]

I would like them to introduce Henry's father.

I suspect that's a "Smoke Monster" level mystery that won't be answered (Though maybe a couple times thinking it's going to be answered and then they pull a switch) until they decide when their last episode will be.

 

[intrinsical]

Its been very clear that Rumplestiltskin/Gold is the creator of the curse. However, it was the wicked witch/Mayor who actually cast the curse by sacrificing her own father's life.

And as Rumplestiltskin said, no one except the curse caster (The Wicked Witch/Mayor) will remember their fairytale life. Supposedly, not even Gold remembers himself as Rumplestiltskin. However, given that the curse originates from him, I suspect he has a trick or backdoor that allows him to remember something. Of course, we have no idea how much Gold actually remembers or knows.

 

[Kosh Naranek]

eonline interview makes it sound like...

Spoiler: implications of interview

The actor is gone for good, but I've heard that song & dance before. Easy enough to bring him back in the fairy tale realm, having the wolf turn out to be a shapeshifter that takes his form, etc.

The interviewer also ferrets out the character he was "supposed" to play but there was some issue with rights (?) - Robin Hood - isn't he in the public domain by now? Or maybe Disney just wants to stick to characters that have more PR value for them.

But Disney made a Robin Hood cartoon! It is one of my favorites.

Little John - "It is pretty hard to laugh hanging there Rob." Robin Hood - "The Sheriff and his whole posse could not lift you off the ground." - Classic

There goes the show's eye candy, but Rumple is still way more interesting.

I do love that Regina's curse is coming back to bite her. Henry is convinced she is evil, and she just killed her source of solace.

I wonder why the Queen and Rumple came to the "other side" with artifacts from the fairy tale land? No one else got to keep anything that we know of...Well maybe Archie's umbrella.

 

[Sindatur]

Its been very clear that Rumplestiltskin/Gold is the creator of the curse. However, it was the wicked witch/Mayor who actually cast the curse by sacrificing her own father's life.

And as Rumplestiltskin said, no one except the curse caster (The Wicked Witch/Mayor) will remember their fairytale life. Supposedly, not even Gold remembers himself as Rumplestiltskin. However, given that the curse originates from him, I suspect he has a trick or backdoor that allows him to remember something. Of course, we have no idea how much Gold actually remembers or knows.

The face off in the Apple Garden between Mr Gold and Regina, made it seem very much like Mr. Gold knows what's going on. Talking about Mr. Gold's fetish for first borns, and Regina questioning him about Emma's child and so forth. The interplay between the two, smelled very much like Mr. Gold knows everything. I think he built a protection for himself into the curse, or maybe as someone theorized, he had Henry's book first (Or another copy of it). But, yea, I don't think Mr. Gold is in the dark, at all.

 

[trekkiebaggio]

I lol'd when Graham told Mary "I know you...from another life". Such a Lost moment

Also, from the wolf's presence would it be safe to assume that animals from the fairytale world stay animals. But humans who got turned into animals revert to their human form (Jiminy Cricket)?

 

[Temis the Vorta]

I do remember the Robin Hood cartoon where they were all animals, but it's not one of Disney's big mainstays, not like Snow White, Cinderella and Pinnochio, which have been conspicuously prominent.

I expect things to continue in that vein, with Disney's cash-cow fairy tale movies providing most of the inspiration for the characters (with the plotlines being turned on their heads, to keep it all interesting for the grownups in the audience.)

Anyway, I'm just speculating about what the guy meant. Doesn't make sense that there would have been a legal issue with using the character.

 

[Enterprise is Great]

Regina is the one who knows (confirmed in an interview with the series creators Kitsis and Horowitz):

http://abc-onceupon.livejournal.com/33316.html

Are Regina and Mr. Gold aware that they are fairy-tale characters?

Since Regina enacted the curse, the writers say she’s fully aware that everyone in Storybrooke is actually a fairy-tale character. As for how much Mr. Gold/Rumplestiltskin (Robert Carlyle) knows? The answer will become clear within the next nine episodes. “We address that head-on,” says Kitsis.

 

[nvek86]

According to Wikipedia the next episode in January is about Rumpelstiltskin's backstory, so maybe that's when they'll adress it "head-on".

Any chance the Huntsman was supposed to be Mowgli originally? Or is there an actual fairy tale where a child was raised by wolves (preferably one's with heterochromia)?

 

[Nerys Myk]

I imagine Mowgli is in the public domain. Though I think Peter Pan has some sort of copyright restrictions.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Peter Pan is well over 100 years old, which strikes me as extreme even by Disney standards for anyone to claim copyright on so I checked it out with Stanford Law School involving a case where an author wrote a new Peter Pan story.

J.M. Barrie's original Peter Pan books are in the public domain now, copyright having expired. However subsequent Peter Pan plays and a musical based on the Peter Pan books are still copyrighted in the U.K.

And Disney/ABC of course has their own version, so we can expect Mr. Pan to be showing up anyday now.

 

[RJDiogenes]

Sciffy just did their own mini-series about Peter Pan a couple of weeks ago.

 

[Guy Gardener]

So bad, I've had part two for a week and it's already been filed away to never been seen again.

 

[Reverend]

I would have thought that if only one of them knows then it'd have to be Rumpelstiltskin. The Queen/Mayor's behaviour has been decidedly ambiguous. I mean given what we know of the various back stories, she's not the main villian of the piece. Rumpelstiltskin appears to be the one manipulating everything and everyone.

I could be wrong of course, but I'd say at most she has a kind of vague, unconscious feeling of who and what she really is.

I'd say the final scene of her with the heart completely breaks that notion. She knows exactly who she is and has all along.

Yeah I know and it bothers me that it feels inconsistent with her performance up until this point. I mean if she was the Queen the whole time why keep up the facade when it's clear there's a threat to her plans? I liked it better when I thought she was acting on vague feelings that echoed her old life and as in the dark as everyone else. Now I can't help but think she's just stupid. The only alternative I can think of is that her memories have been gradually creeping back the whole time and have only now fully surfaced. That or there's a split personality thing going on.

 

[danellis]

I kinda figure that people knowing the truth breaks the spell, at least to a degree, that's usually how these things work.

She has to keep on acting like it's all just Henry's delusion because if she acknowledged the truth of it the spell's hold would be weakened.

dJE

Yeah I know and it bothers me that it feels inconsistent with her performance up until this point. I mean if she was the Queen the whole time why keep up the facade when it's clear there's a threat to her plans? I liked it better when I thought she was acting on vague feelings that echoed her old life and as in the dark as everyone else. Now I can't help but think she's just stupid. The only alternative I can think of is that her memories have been gradually creeping back the whole time and have only now fully surfaced. That or there's a split personality thing going on.

 

[Kosh Naranek]

I was thinking and I am not sure if it counts as a spoiler or not.

Spoiler: Possible Spoiler on upcoming storyline

Could the wolf be somehow tied to the Beast? I recall reading that the Beast and Belle are coming up. Could they tie Graham and the wolf back to the curse placed on the Beast?

I only say that because the same snippet I read stated that the show runners said that the Beast was already on the canvas.

 

[Sindatur]

I would have thought that if only one of them knows then it'd have to be Rumpelstiltskin. The Queen/Mayor's behaviour has been decidedly ambiguous. I mean given what we know of the various back stories, she's not the main villian of the piece. Rumpelstiltskin appears to be the one manipulating everything and everyone.

I could be wrong of course, but I'd say at most she has a kind of vague, unconscious feeling of who and what she really is.

I'd say the final scene of her with the heart completely breaks that notion. She knows exactly who she is and has all along.

Yeah I know and it bothers me that it feels inconsistent with her performance up until this point. I mean if she was the Queen the whole time why keep up the facade when it's clear there's a threat to her plans? I liked it better when I thought she was acting on vague feelings that echoed her old life and as in the dark as everyone else. Now I can't help but think she's just stupid. The only alternative I can think of is that her memories have been gradually creeping back the whole time and have only now fully surfaced. That or there's a split personality thing going on.

What about how she came up with Charming's wife out of nowhere? Or last week sending Charming into Mr. Gold's shop, so he could be reprogrammed by the windmill. Her conversation with Mr. Gold in the Apple Grove.

I think it was maybe ambiguous in the first couple of episodes, but, I think it's been pretty obvious most of the season that she knows exactly what's going on.

 

[Santeria]

Yeah, there's been little indication that Regina doesn't remember anything and far more evidence that she does. Mr. Gold is the only one who's questionable, but he seemed to indicate that he remembers as well when he said the "magic word" to Regina in her garden a few episodes ago.

The only thing she may not know, which is more from genuine ignorance than a result of the curse, is who Emma is. But that raises the question of why she wanted to find Henry so badly. The only thing I can think of is that she has no idea who Henry actually is and simply wanted a child to fill in for the loss she has for sacrificing her father, hence naming him Henry to begin with. Mr. Gold might have picked him because he's the catalyst for bring the curse to an end.

The thing I don't understand is why Mr. Gold would want to do that. His life in Storybrook seems to be far better than it was in his homeland.

I guess it depends on what will actually happen if the curse is broken. Will everyone simply remember who and what they are, or will they all be whisked back to their own world?

 

[sojourner]

Sciffy just did their own mini-series about Peter Pan a couple of weeks ago.

That was last week.

 

[Greg Cox]

As I understand it, Regina does not know that Emma is the long-lost daughter of Snow White and Prince Charming. Or that Henry is Snow's grand-son. Mr. Gold arranged the adoption--and presumably has some sort of secret agenda for doing so.

(Does Gold know the truth? Maybe. The show is being deliberately ambiguous on this point. They're teasing us on purpose.)

Regina, who has always known she was the Wicked Queen, just thinks that Emma is Henry's troublesome biological mom, nothing more.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Peter Pan is well over 100 years old, which strikes me as extreme even by Disney standards for anyone to claim copyright on so I checked it out with Stanford Law School involving a case where an author wrote a new Peter Pan story.

J.M. Barrie's original Peter Pan books are in the public domain now, copyright having expired. However subsequent Peter Pan plays and a musical based on the Peter Pan books are still copyrighted in the U.K.

And Disney/ABC of course has their own version, so we can expect Mr. Pan to be showing up anyday now.

In my understanding it had more to do with the Great Ormond St Childrens Hospitai than anything with Disney. Disney actually paid the licensing fee when they made their version.

Peter Pan copyright

In April 1929 the hospital was the recipient of playwright J. M. Barrie's copyright to the Peter Pan works, with the provision that the income from this source not be disclosed. This gave the institution control of the rights to these works, and entitled it to royalties from any performance or publication of the play and derivative works. Four theatrical feature films were produced,[12] innumerable performances of the play have been presented, and numerous editions of the novel were published under licence from the hospital. Its trustees commissioned a sequel novel, Peter Pan in Scarlet, which was published in 2006 and received mixed but generally positive reviews,[13][14] with a film adaptation planned.[15]
When the copyright originally expired at the end of 1987, 50 years after Barrie's death, the UK government granted the hospital a perpetual right to collect royalties for public performances, commercial publication, or other communications to the public of the work.[16] The UK copyright was subsequently extended through 2007 by a European Union directive in 1996 standardising terms throughout the EU to the author's life plus 70 years. GOSH has been in legal disputes in the United States, where the copyright term is based on date of publication, putting the 1911 novel in the public domain, although the Hospital asserts that the 1928 version of the play is still under copyright in the U.S.[17] Legal opinion as to whether or not permission is required for new works based on the story and characters is divided and open to interpretation and so far, there has been no legal precedent to prove one view or the other.[18]