Best Borg stories ever!!
- Thread starter RAMA
- Start date
Circular logic. You are claiming they are continuity violations in order to show that they are continuity violations.
I think you're totally overstating it.
The Hansens were following rumors and "sensor echoes", there's no reason to suggests that Starfleet/UFP had a file on "The Borg" or really knew anything about it.
Anyway, onto my favorite Borg episodes and it seems I'm in the minority here but Dark Frontier is actually my favorite and my 5th favorite episode ever (as seen in my top 20 episodes youtube video)
What elevates Dark Frontier above other Borg episodes for me was the pathos and tragedy of the Hansen story that we got to see unfold in flashbacks.
Many people think the only Borg episodes that are good are the ones that show the Borg as a scary/ominous force and dismiss "Dark Frontier" as an action fest, but I think the Borg are at their MOST ominous here. We see the Hansens recklessly pursure the Borg with their daughter in tow and we know that they will end up meeting a grisly fate. The dramatic irony of these scenes are just some of the darkest in all of Trek. It helped that they found probably the cutest child actress ever to play Seven and it gives me a lump in my throat watching this innocent child in a situation more dangerous than she or her parents understand.
Furthermore what Dark Frontier gives us is really fascinating scenes INSIDE the Borg machine. The attack on Voyager from the view of the Borg, a firsthand view of a Borg attack ON an Alien world and the grisly scenes of people actually being assimilated all give added texture to the Borg.
And the third thing that elevates the episode is simply the presence of Seven, this was an episode that showed off Voyager's greatest achievement and a fantastic actress. The swirl of emotions going through Seven's head in this episode is hard to comprehend. She is angry at her parents but can also barely face thinking about the terrible experience that befell them all, concerned about the fate of Voyager and conflicted over the choice given to her by the Borg Queen.
"Dark Frontier" is the definitive Borg episode for me ahead of "Best of Both Worlds" because we have the "ominous/threatening" side of the Borg in the Hansen diaries, added information on the Borg in those diaries and in the scenes with Seven.
Some people like to claim that Voyager ruined the Borg but I'd say First Contact was the real blow in the creation of the Queen figure and continuing the whole "The Borg won't attack you if you're not a threat" rubbish. I was actually pleased that in "Dark Frontier" they kind of found a way around that by giving the crew a 3 minute timeline within the cube between sensor sweeps.
So yeah, overall an episode definitely worth revisiting. Heck, even sfdebris gives DF a 10/10! Some flaws but overall big screen ambitions and story.
The Hansens were following rumors and "sensor echoes", there's no reason to suggests that Starfleet/UFP had a file on "The Borg" or really knew anything about it.
Anyway, onto my favorite Borg episodes and it seems I'm in the minority here but Dark Frontier is actually my favorite and my 5th favorite episode ever (as seen in my top 20 episodes youtube video)
What elevates Dark Frontier above other Borg episodes for me was the pathos and tragedy of the Hansen story that we got to see unfold in flashbacks.
Many people think the only Borg episodes that are good are the ones that show the Borg as a scary/ominous force and dismiss "Dark Frontier" as an action fest, but I think the Borg are at their MOST ominous here. We see the Hansens recklessly pursure the Borg with their daughter in tow and we know that they will end up meeting a grisly fate. The dramatic irony of these scenes are just some of the darkest in all of Trek. It helped that they found probably the cutest child actress ever to play Seven and it gives me a lump in my throat watching this innocent child in a situation more dangerous than she or her parents understand.
Furthermore what Dark Frontier gives us is really fascinating scenes INSIDE the Borg machine. The attack on Voyager from the view of the Borg, a firsthand view of a Borg attack ON an Alien world and the grisly scenes of people actually being assimilated all give added texture to the Borg.
And the third thing that elevates the episode is simply the presence of Seven, this was an episode that showed off Voyager's greatest achievement and a fantastic actress. The swirl of emotions going through Seven's head in this episode is hard to comprehend. She is angry at her parents but can also barely face thinking about the terrible experience that befell them all, concerned about the fate of Voyager and conflicted over the choice given to her by the Borg Queen.
"Dark Frontier" is the definitive Borg episode for me ahead of "Best of Both Worlds" because we have the "ominous/threatening" side of the Borg in the Hansen diaries, added information on the Borg in those diaries and in the scenes with Seven.
Some people like to claim that Voyager ruined the Borg but I'd say First Contact was the real blow in the creation of the Queen figure and continuing the whole "The Borg won't attack you if you're not a threat" rubbish. I was actually pleased that in "Dark Frontier" they kind of found a way around that by giving the crew a 3 minute timeline within the cube between sensor sweeps.
So yeah, overall an episode definitely worth revisiting. Heck, even sfdebris gives DF a 10/10! Some flaws but overall big screen ambitions and story.
no, I'm claiming they're continuity violations because "Q Who" and "BOBW" came first, and it was pretty much expressly pointed out during those episodes that the UFP was unfamiliar with the Borg.
No, it was established in Q Who that Picard had no knowedge of the Borg. Picard doesn't know everything that the Federation and Starfleet knows, so I don't see the problem.
And BoBW has Shelby working on a weapon, which means only that they don't know how to damage the Borg.
so... the UFP knew about the Borg for years, but only started preparing for them defensively by COINCIDENCE when Picard encountered them?
you know what, you can come up with all kinds of contrived rationalizations if you want, I don't see the point
I'm responding to Tiberius' argument about a cover-up, not about the specific events in "regeneration."
Are we talking about Dark Frontier or Regeneration here?
Because if you're talking about "Dark Frontier" messing with continuity then I really don't agree. Picard and Starfleet are hardly gonna be keeping a big open file on "that mysterious/rumored race which the Hansens went to investigate and never came back".
Because if you're talking about "Dark Frontier" messing with continuity then I really don't agree. Picard and Starfleet are hardly gonna be keeping a big open file on "that mysterious/rumored race which the Hansens went to investigate and never came back".
When did I say that?
Until Q Who, the Feds knew very little about the Borg. it was only after the Enterprise managed to gather information about the in Q WHo that they were able to start work and actually get somewhere.
They pretty much say this in BoBW.
You rarely see the point or touch the shift key.
Earth Starfleet had some visuals, a report from Archer plus some speculations that these are actually the guys from Cochrane's stories which nobody believed at the time.
Does this land at the top of the priority list of Earth Starfleet to preserve as an invasion warning for 200 years? Doubtful.
But even if they took the speculation seriously and put some VERY IMPORTANT marker on the files they probably did not inform the population. Why bother them with an invasion that might occur in two centuries. So there is no public pressure to keep an eye on these important files and to be the grailkeeper of a warning about a 24th century invasion.
Then there came some real, non-speculative problems in the present, the war with the Romulans. Add the reorganization of five space agencies into one, several wars in the following decades and it is not surprising that the warning got lost somewhere in the databanks, that Picard is not briefed about an obscure warning from two centuries ago about cyborg aliens that might invade somewhen, somewhere (yeah, that's helpful and precise information).
Perhaps someone dug out the files after the events from "Q Who?", who knows. But that a warning based on speculation and a Cochrane story survived and that every captain is briefed about it in the 24th century seems unlikely.
In the 22nd Century, Archer would've been labeled as insane if he told this story...
right, as would Phlox and all the others who could back up his story, right? A ship full of crazy people...
And there's no actual MAJOR invasion until 2381.
I much preferred it when we didn't know there was a Borg queen. The idea of a single minded collective with no emotion roaming the galaxy, fucking shit up when they pleased was a very chilling one.
Then the idea that they were all under the control of a couple of queens who told them what to do and where to go kinda spoiled it a tad. Then Voyager just made them shit.
Then the idea that they were all under the control of a couple of queens who told them what to do and where to go kinda spoiled it a tad. Then Voyager just made them shit.
The only way to keep using the Borg was to give them representatives, unless you just made them some background threat while the main plot was something else.
The writers themselves were unsure about using the Borg again after "Q Who?" because they had no personality.
That's where they got the idea for assimilation from, so they could turn one of the characters into a Borg "Queen Bee" (that's the exact term they used for Locutus).
They should've saved themselves the trouble and just given the Borg Queens/Kings right from the start.
The writers themselves were unsure about using the Borg again after "Q Who?" because they had no personality.
That's where they got the idea for assimilation from, so they could turn one of the characters into a Borg "Queen Bee" (that's the exact term they used for Locutus).
They should've saved themselves the trouble and just given the Borg Queens/Kings right from the start.