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wwe vs tnt anyone watching?

Oh yeah there are all kinds of reasons for it not to happen...but I marked out during that video. I haven't heard Brock talk so candidly regarding Austin before. I knew he had problems in the back with some guys but I had no idea it was Austin who felt threatened. We do know that Brock has stated that he has on business terms with Vince so that's a good sign. The fact he is in the game and been promoting goes a long way with a lot of fans including me who haven't always been so high on him. Never say Never in the pro wrestling business though! :)
 
I'll give you Brock/Austin being best from a storyline perspective. Lesnar's last match in WWE ended with him flipping the audience off and being given a Stunner. The whole build up to the match with Goldberg at that event centered around Austin using his position as interim GM to make the match happen and allow Goldberg to get his revenge on Lesnar at No Way Out.

From a reality perspective, they could also bring Austin's reluctanct to job to Lesnar in 2002 into the feud. Obviously, they'd have to blur it so kayfabe is included so they could simply say that Austin refused to face Lesnar because he didn't think that Lesnar had what it took to be the top guy or something like that.
 
Lesnar Vs Austin would be great. I won't hold my breath though. I feel it is too late for these type of things...like Cena & The Rock...just move on and focus on the talent you got and bring more young talent up.
 
It just cannot happen while Lesnar is under contract to UFC. If it did happen while Lesnar is still an Ultimate Fighter, what is UFC going to get out of it? It would be like WWE giving TNA John Cena so he can have a match against Hulk Hogan. How can WWE acknowledge Lesnar's status as an MMA star without admitting that it's own product is staged?

It could be career ruining for Lesnar to lose to a WWE wrestler at this current point in his UFC career. Brock Lesnar has knocked down men bigger than a lot of the guys on the WWE roster with a few punches - I don't think that people would buy into Lesnar's opponent shaking off Lesnar and managing to hold his own.

There are so many questions, regarding how WWE could handle a Lesnar return match whilst he is still a mixed-martial artist. It's a pretty complicated situation and one that both sides may not be able to agree on.
 
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The only way that it would happen while Lesnar was under UFC contract would be if Dana and Vince came to some kind of mutual beneficial business deal. Perhaps cross-promotion of each other's PPV's and shows? The match I'm talking about would only be a one shot deal and be at Wrestlemania 28. Nothing else makes sense. He is not going to appear on a lesser PPV. It is the grand daddy of them all. Brock would not be interested in facing anyone on the current roster in my opinion. That WWE'12 video while a promotional video did feature him talking about Austin. I'm not saying this is not a difficult match to put together because it is. Austin's knees are obviously not in the greatest shape and as Admiral M has pointed out he hasn't wrestled a match in several years, but yet neither has the Rock and he's been working to train and doing action flicks as Austin has. I don't think it impossible...but I don't mind paying Admiral M 12 bucks either :)
 
Austin was a dreadful excuse for a wrestler even back then; combine that with the fact it's 7 years or whatever since he last had a match and it's an instant flop waiting to happen. Brock's good in the ring, but I'm not sure he's the sort that can carry someone subpar to a decent match.
 
The only way that it would happen while Lesnar was under UFC contract would be if Dana and Vince came to some kind of mutual beneficial business deal. Perhaps cross-promotion of each other's PPV's and shows?

I just do not see how they can...

No way is a legitimate sports organisation like UFC going to promote a staged entertainment promotion like WWE. Vince has made his feelings about the MMA industry clear when he was urged by several members of his inner circle (including Shane McMahon) to get into the industry and refused.

Although it's not acknowledged publically, I would think that WWE bigwigs see UFC as the competition to their product. UFC has been responsible for a sizeable percentage of the drop in WWE PPV buys in the last few years. WWE has alienated many of their long time fans who have turned to TNA - only to be even more disappointed. Many of these fans have gone on to discover UFC and they really enjoy it because there is no bullshit with MMA, it's just two guys going out into a cage with no theatrics and none of the other tropes that have been done to death by the leaders in the professional wrestling market.

The only thing I can think of that would create a mutually beneficial business deal would be if UFC and WWE partnered on some film projects. Then again, I don't see many UFC employees being suitable for roles in lame, family-friendly comedy movie roles. WWE Films is a sinkhole for the company and the sooner they cut the gangrenous studio loose from their product - the better. They would have much more money to develop talent and give this "WWE network" a real shot.

I Look for WWE programming to get unbearably awful again during Linda McMahon's senate campaign. It's not a welcome prospect and the insufferable propoganda that goes along with these kinds of things makes me think of Kim-Jong il.

The only reason I continue to be a fan of WWE is because I'm a fan of professional wrestling, the talent and the business. The product that WWE has moulded themselves into from 2002 onwards has got to be one of the worst declines of multi-media entertainment in the last 20 years! It's nothing to do with the "PG era" as the IWC continually blames and it's not because they gave up on the "Attitude Era" - because the period between 1997-2001 was lacking exceptional in-ring talents, storylines could be hit or miss and a lot of the products content was in pretty bad taste. WWE realised all this and once WCW was no longer a threat they aspired to clean up their product and distinguish themselves from all the other wrestling promotions all over again (like Vince McMahon did in the 1980's).

The problem was, instead of refining their creative methodology, they hired loads of former Hollywood TV writers - usually sitcom writers, who had no real understanding of the business. If Vince McMahon wants to call his organisation "entertainment" - then that's up to him, but when he denies that WWE is also professional wrestling he is attracting criticism from others in the entertainment industry.

It could be worse though...Randy Orton could turn heel, feud with Cena constantly in the Raw main event and revert to his previous match coreography that consisted of stomps and restholds and the classical heel chinlock that takes up anything from 5-10 minutes of the match.
 
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Later I'm going to put up the quintessential list of all WWE booking decisions I've hated from when I started watching the product.
 
Austin was a dreadful excuse for a wrestler even back then; combine that with the fact it's 7 years or whatever since he last had a match and it's an instant flop waiting to happen. Brock's good in the ring, but I'm not sure he's the sort that can carry someone subpar to a decent match.

Wow. I kind of have to disagree with that entire assessment of Austin. I think he was one of the best wrestlers of his time, and I'm talking about actual ability. He also possessed that absolutely critical ability to tell a compelling story within a match itself. That's something I think is lost with a lot of the talent going today.

A match now probably wouldn't burn the house down, but I think Austin could deliver something a lot better than an "instant flop."

That's just me, and I won't go on, because I could. We're just not going to agree on him.

I never really thought much of Brock as a wrestler. That's apparently blasphemy on the IWC, but I always found him to be wildly overrated, and I suspect I always will. I'm completely indifferent to his possible return.

Survivor Series is looking pretty solid so far. WWE could use a huge home run.

The UFC/WWE debate is such a tired one to me. It's an alternative, but it's not an industry-killer. Most people I know get something out of both. I know very few who prefer one over the other. Generally the people who do prefer UFC over pro-wrestling were never really big wrestling fans to begin with.
 
As promised, here's my list of most hated WWE booking decisions from the 1998-2011 period.

1998

Kane winning the WWF Championship only to lose it 24 hours later.
Goldust giving up on his gimmick and then proceeding to portray just about everyone else.
Val Venis’ feud with Kaientai.
Duane Gill winning the Light Heavyweight Championship
The Val Venis/Terri Runnels pregnancy angle
The worked repeat of the Montreal screw job

1999

Vince McMahon winning the Royal Rumble
Road Dogg winning the Intercontinental Championship
Kane being forced to join the Corporation and then being sectioned to a mental asylum
The empty arena match for the WWF Championship
X Pac losing the European Championship to Shane McMahon
Mideon being awarded the European Championship
Undertaker crucifying Steve Austin
Undertaker attempting to marry Stephanie McMahon in a demonic ceremony
Vince McMahon being revealed as the “higher power” behind Undertaker
The “Kennel from Hell” match
Mark Henry having a sexual encounter with a transvestite
Mark Henry and Mae Young having a romance
Mae Young giving birth to a rubber hand sex toy
Billy Gunn winning the King of the Ring
The “Kiss my Ass” match
Chyna winning the Intercontinental Championship
Chris Jericho losing to Chyna
Chris Jericho and Chyna being declared co-Intercontinental Championship holders
The referees going on strike
Stephanie McMahon revealing she wasn’t drugged when she “married” Triple H after all
Vince McMahon winning the WWF Championship

2000

Mae Young “stripping” at the Royal Rumble
Almost all the matches at Wrestlemania 2000
Tazz being buried by Triple H
Chris Jericho defeating Triple H for the WWF Championship only for Earl Hebner to reverse the decision as long as Triple H promised to stop getting physical with him
Dean Malenko losing the Light Heavyweight Championship to Scotty 2 Hotty
Undertaker and Kane rekindling their feud for no apparent reason
The 24/7 Hardcore Championship rule
The Big Show impersonating other wrestlers
Gerald Brisco becoming Hardcore Champion
Pat Patterson becoming Hardcore Champion
The Hardcore Evening Gown match
Shane McMahon becoming Hardcore Champion
Road Dogg and K-Kwik being a tag team
Tazz feuding with Jerry Lawler and Jim Ross
Rikishi being revealed as the person who run over Steve Austin
Rikishi’s feud with The Rock

2001

Triple H ultimately winning the feud with Steve Austin
Chyna’s feud with Ivory
Steve Austin turning heel at Wrestlemania 17
Stephanie McMahon’s feud with Chris Jericho
Perry Saturn going insane and carrying around a mop
The entire Invasion angle
Steve Austin joining The Alliance
Kurt Angle winning the Hardcore Championship for no apparent reason
Booker T awarding Kanyon the United States Championship
Kurt Angle winning the WCW World Heavyweight Championship
Booker T losing easily to pretty much everyone
Stephanie McMahon being revealed as the new owner of ECW
X Pac winning the Light Heavyweight Championship and the Cruiserweight Championship
Lance Storm mopping up at the WWF New York
William Regal joining the “Kiss my Ass” club voluntarily
The whole Christian employing DDP as his life coach storyline
Gregory Helms becoming The Hurricane
The brief, illogical feud between the Hardys

2002

Triple H and Stephanie McMahon’s divorce with both of them vying for custody over a dog and Stephanie joining forces with Jericho
Edge and Booker T feuding over a shampoo commercial
Goldust becoming obsessed with Booker T
X-Pac, Booker T, Shawn Michaels and Big Show joining the New World Order
Hulk Hogan winning the Undisputed Championship
The HLA storyline feud with Eric Bischoff and Stephanie McMahon
Eric Bischoff creating the World Heavyweight Championship and just giving it to Triple H
Test’s “Test-icles” storyline
RVD unifying every title with Kane winning the Unified Intercontinental Championship from him only for Triple H accuse him of necrophilia and win the feud decisively

2003

The Rock turning heel
Scott Steiner’s feud with Triple H
Triple H’s feud with Booker T that involved dodgy racial content and resulted in Triple H burying Booker at Wrestlemania 19
John Cena’s feud with Brock Lesnar
Big Show’s feud with Rey Mysterio
Shane McMahon’s feud with Kane
The Dawn Marie/Torrie Wilson/Al Wilson storyline mess
The ambulance match
Hulk Hogan resurfacing as “Mr America”
The I-Quit match between Stephanie and Vince McMahon
John Cena turning face
Goldberg’s title reign rendered meaningless by Triple H swiftly regaining the title
Triple H’s general workrate

2004

The Brock Lesnar and Goldberg match at Wrestlemania 20
JBL defeating Eddie Guerrero for the WWE Championship
Randy Orton winning the World Heavyweight Championship only to get absolutely owned by Triple H during their subsequent feud
Maven being buried despite improving dramatically
The Eugene character
Carlito “stabbing” John Cena
Big Show’s feud with Kurt Angle

2005

Triple H winning the vacant World Heavyweight Championship after it was vacated from him
The Eddie Guerrero/Rey Mysterio storyline that involved Mysterio’s son
Orlando Jordan winning the United States Championship
Chavo Guerrero becoming Kerwin White
“Cowboy” Bob Orton helping Randy Orton in his feud with Undertaker
John Cena introducing the WWE Championship spinner belt
Eric Bischoff being removed from the arena in a waste disposal truck

2006

Edge winning the WWE Championship, only to lose it back to John Cena a couple of weeks later
Booker T and Sharmell’s feud with The Boogeyman which included Booker T losing to Boogeyman in a squash at Wrestlemania
Rey Mysterio winning the Royal Rumble and then going on to win the World Heavyweight Championship at Wrestlemania in a pretty exploitative storyline
Mickie James becoming obsessed with Trish Stratus
Mick Foley turning heel and his storyline with Melina
Randy Orton’s feud with Hulk Hogan
Big Show winning the ECW Championship
The December to Dismember PPV

2007

John Cena owning The Great Khali in every single one of their encounters
Vince McMahon winning the ECW Championship
Randy Orton feuding with Dusty Rhodes
Booker T being buried by Triple H again
John Morrison winning the ECW Championship
The Vince McMahon’s illegitimate son storyline
Hornswoggle being revealed as McMahon’s illegitimate son, only for it to then revealed to have been an elaborate hoax

2008

John Cena winning the Royal Rumble
Chris Jericho’s feud with JBL
Kane winning the ECW Championship in 9 seconds
ECW becoming a halfway house between FCW and the main roster
Colin Delaney turning heel on Tommy Dreamer for no reason
CM Punk not being able to defend the World Heavyweight Championship and as a result losing it to someone who wasn’t even supposed to be in the match (Chris Jericho)

2009

Edge losing the WWE Championship then winning the World Heavyweight Championship in the same night
Randy Orton being owned by Shane McMahon
Randy Orton’s feud with Triple H
Most of the Wrestlemania 25 card
Shawn Michaels being found flipping burgers
Big Show being revealed as Chris Jericho’s new tag team partner
CM Punk spending the end of the year jobbing out to everyone

2010

Edge winning the Royal Rumble
John Cena winning at Wrestlemania
The “duct tape” match between Cena and Batista
John Cena being the sole survivor in the Summerslam elimination match
Bret Hart winning the United States Championship
The Anonymous Raw GM storyline
John Cena being fired and then continuing to appear every week on Raw
Nexus falling apart and then consolidating into The New Nexus and The Corre
John Cena and David Otunga winning the WWE Tag Team Championship

2011

John Cena and The Miz winning the WWE Tag Team Championship only to lose it back to The Corre immediately
Dolph Ziggler being awarded the World Heavyweight Championship only to immediately lose it to Edge.
The entire Wrestlemania 27 card with the exception of Undertaker vs. Triple H
Michael Cole’s feud with Jerry Lawler and Jim Ross
Randy Orton defeating Christian for the World Heavyweight Championship - less than 48 hours after he won it
NXT: Redemption refusing to end!
The Barack Obama impersonator at Capitol Punishment
Rey Mysterio winning a version of the WWE Championship only to lose it to John Cena in the same night
Kevin Nash attacking CM Punk and allowing Alberto Del Rio to cash in the MITB at Summerslam
The Triple H vs. CM Punk match at Night Of Champions
The Raw “walkout” angle
John Cena winning the WWE Championship for the tenth time from Alberto Del Rio
Most of the “WWE Conspiracy” storyline thus far
 
It is interesting that they have mentioned a conspiracy because I have been watching old wrestling videos and unfortunately came across the formation of "nWo 2000" (the incarnation featuring Hart, Jarrett, and the Outsiders) and you can hear Mike Tenay say "it was a conspiracy all along!" and Schivonoe exclaim "we didn't see it coming". Unfortunately if the New World Order does return I think most people will have seen it coming this time and if they haven't they've not been paying attention since July. Even I'm not as excited by this prospect any more.
 
It is interesting that they have mentioned a conspiracy because I have been watching old wrestling videos and unfortunately came across the formation of "nWo 2000" (the incarnation featuring Hart, Jarrett, and the Outsiders) and you can hear Mike Tenay say "it was a conspiracy all along!" and Schivonoe exclaim "we didn't see it coming". Unfortunately if the New World Order does return I think most people will have seen it coming this time and if they haven't they've not been paying attention since July. Even I'm not as excited by this prospect any more.

Ugh, the nWo 2000 or nWo "silver" as they were known. That was a desperation move on WCW's part because they had been getting their asses kicked by the WWF for well over a year and a half at this point.

WCW later went down this awful route where they vacated all the titles and split the roster up into two feuding stables - New Blood and The Millionaires Club. WCW's problem was that it was too set in it's ways with all the superstables and had come to depend on them when things weren't going too well.

WCW had so many superstables during it's 10 year standalone period (1991-2001)....

The Four Horsemen (beginning until 1999)
The Dangerous Alliance (beginning until 1995)
Alliance To End Hulkamania (1996)
The Dungeon Of Doom (1995 until 1997)
The nWo (original) (1996 until 1999)
The First Family (1997 until 1999)
Raven's Flock (1997 until 1998)
The Latino World Order (1998 until 1999)
nWo Wolfpac (1998 until 1999)
No Limit Soldiers (1998 until 1999)
nWo "Elite" (1999)
The Filthy Animals (1999 until 2001)
The Revolution (1999 until 2000)
nWo 2000 (1999 until 2000)
The New Blood (2000)
The Millionaires Club (2000)
Misfits In Action (2000 until 2001)
Team Canada (2000 until 2001)
The Natural Born Thrillers (2000 until2001)
The Magnificent Seven (2000 until 2001)

Compare that to WWE(F)'s stables from 2001 to the present day...

The McMahon-Helmsley Faction - including the remnants of DX and the associations with The Radicalz, Edge and Christian, Kurt Angle and Steve Austin (ended 2001)
Right To Censor (ended 2001)
The Alliance (2001)
The Un-Americans (2002)
Evolution (2003 until 2005)
The ECW Originals (2007)
Legacy (2008 until 2009)
The Nexus/New Nexus (2010 until 2011)
The Corre (2010 until 2011)

WCW had multiple superstables running at once throughout it's decade of operations as a standalone promotion. That was complete overkill and they depended on it to boost ratings. The nWo was the most successful of the stables during this decade, with the Four Horsemen being more successful during the JCP/NWA days.
 
Yep WCW arguably had the better talent but seemingly lacked the creativeness that Vince continued to exude even after Vince Russo departed. Russo's problem seems to be his inability to be creative or learn from past mistakes. There is no innovation, and yes I know Vince does repeat or resurrect past gimmicks as well but his don't fall apart as much as Russo's does. It's not shocking that TNA is suffering from the same problems that WCW did or why fans constantly refer to it as WCW 2.0.

Admiral M I have to disagree with a lot of your list there...but I do agree with some as well. I'll through with it maybe tomorrow. Have had not a great day today.
 
Austin was a dreadful excuse for a wrestler even back then; combine that with the fact it's 7 years or whatever since he last had a match and it's an instant flop waiting to happen. Brock's good in the ring, but I'm not sure he's the sort that can carry someone subpar to a decent match.

Wow. I kind of have to disagree with that entire assessment of Austin. I think he was one of the best wrestlers of his time, and I'm talking about actual ability. He also possessed that absolutely critical ability to tell a compelling story within a match itself. That's something I think is lost with a lot of the talent going today.
Austin was a half-trick pony, who was only popular for his loutish prick persona. His standard match was punch, stomp, stunner, and almost all his opponents squashed. The Rock and Cripple H weren't any better either. We went from an era of great wrestlers dominating the main event card (Bret Hart, Michaels, Undertaker) to punching bores with twatcharacters (Austin, Rock, HHH). Things got better with Angle, Lesnar, and Benoit having good runs, but HHH even now refuses to fuck off completely, having dominated and squashed for over a decade now. And again we have poor wrestlers as the top draws in Cena and Orton. Bloody wrestling.
 
Austin is actually considered a great wrestler and had a lot of mat presence when he was Stunning Steve Austin in WCW. He showed glimpses of this ability during his WWE career as well. It wasn't until he started suffering leg and neck injuries that this was limited. Remember that Owen Hart pile drived Austin on his neck during a match and Steve broke his neck and was out for almost a year. This was a severe injury and since then he was never the same wrestler.
 
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Miz needs to be champ again. :sigh: I think Alex Riley was better off with him...maybe Alex Riley can get back into Miz's good graces and be part of The Awesome Truth? :lol:

What happened to AR?
 
^ Fell off the radar after that pointless feud with the Miz and then Miz and Truth formed the Awesome Truth. He's probably being repackaged again. I still find it sad what they did with the Miz. It is almost like Vince panicked and didn't want a successful heel champion who is good on the mic. Since Miz was forced to drop the title (yeah until I get an explanation I'm going to say that he was forced to do this) it has gone Cena/Punk/Del Rio/Cena/Del Rio I think. Cena does not need to be WWE Champion at this point. Maybe Mike's relationship with Maryse played some kind of part in his dropping the title?

Botchamania 192 is up and has been for the last few days. I can't remember if this was brought up before. I love Maffew's tag line for it: Stranger than Evan Bourne failing a drug test and Mason Ryan passing!:rommie:
 
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