"That book never happened!"

[Sci]

Well season three was the key season, wasn't it. I think the war arc was wrong to do and he should have brought Braga to task on that. Wasn't he showrunning by then?

No. Coto was on staff but was not the showrunner until Season Four.

The nose dive to me

There was never a nose dive. ENT had just constantly been losing viewers since Season One.

Rick Berman's revenge on Braga for Nemesis.

What the hell are you talking about? Braga had nothing to do with NEM. NEM was the brainchild of John Logan and Brent Spiner.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[Christopher]

^Or rather, the nose dive was in the first season of ENT. Its viewership at the end of the first season was half what it was at the beginning.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Star_Trek_Enterprise_ratings_chart.png

 

[Therin of Andor]

Well season three was the key season, wasn't it. I think the war arc was wrong to do and he should have brought Braga to task on that. Wasn't he showrunning by then?

Who? Manny Coto? According to Wikipedia, Coto "was the executive producer and showrunner of Star Trek: Enterprise in its final season".

Memory Alpha says, "Manny was brought into Star Trek for the third season of Star Trek: Enterprise and wrote several episodes. Showrunners Rick Berman and Brannon Braga were so impressed with his work, and his love for the original Star Trek, that he became the new executive producer for the fourth and final season. His influence helped the show fulfill its initial purpose, a prequel to the beloved Original Series and Star Trek: The Next Generation, through a series of episodes, many of them parts of two- or three-part arcs, that explored some of the missing links in the Trek mythology."

The nose dive to me definately was the writing's direction and therefore downward turn of the ratings.

No. The ratings plummeted after "Broken Bow", and kept bleeding, but really fell off in the lacklustre Season Two. Something dramatic needed to be done. The Season Three war arc is generally accepted to be a vast improvement in quality over Season Two, revitalising the show sufficiently to keep it going another year.

the ratings might have improved but to me he was the final nail and a portent of doom.

The show was buried in a corner of UPN, a failing, young network. The network couldn't even be received in some areas of USA, IIRC. While VOY was considered the flagship show for UPN, by ENT's time, one-hour science fiction dramas no longer fitted the demographic UPN was aiming at.

The fat lady of the opera. Dr. Giggles and the Joker wrapped up in one. Rick Berman's revenge on Braga for Nemesis. As I say Brutus and Barrabas.. Though better than JJudas...

Is there a point to all this name calling?

Well you know the audience is gonna lose interest and not subscribe. More like a harmonica player or a banjo.

I understand that ENT sells quite well as boxed DVD sets. ST fans are discovering and rediscovering it every day, and finding most eps are not as bad as perceived when ENT was on the air.

 

[ToddCam]

Wow, I can't believe anyone thinks Coto's influence ruined ENT. That show was almost unwatchable in Season 2. The Xindi arc was a good change of pace, and Season 4 was awesome. Different strokes, I guess.

 

[Starbreaker]

Well season three was the key season, wasn't it. I think the war arc was wrong to do and he should have brought Braga to task on that. Wasn't he showrunning by then? where we got such beauties as Similitude and his reign began. The nose dive to me definately was the writing's direction and therefore downward turn of the ratings. Had they refrained from not doing the war arc and the two and three show arcs and painting Archer in such a bad, negative and dark light, the ratings might have improved but to me he was the final nail and a portent of doom. The fat lady of the opera. Dr. Giggles and the Joker wrapped up in one. Rick Berman's revenge on Braga for Nemesis. As I say Brutus and Barrabas.. Though better than JJudas...

You know it reminds me of say a saxiphone player joining the NY philharmonic and being in charge of planning the scheduals and programming only saxaphone concertos and his own music. Well you know the audience is gonna lose interest and not subscribe. More like a harmonica player or a banjo.

You are an incoherent poster with horrible spelling and grammar abilities. Your uninformed rants are particularly annoying. Please, go read Wikipedia and watch a couple episodes of Star Trek and come back when you can carry on an intelligent conversation.

 

[xortex]

Some people like saxiphone concertos. Or dueling banjos.

 

[LightningStorm]

Well season three was the key season, wasn't it. I think the war arc was wrong to do and he should have brought Braga to task on that. Wasn't he showrunning by then? where we got such beauties as Similitude and his reign began. The nose dive to me definately was the writing's direction and therefore downward turn of the ratings. Had they refrained from not doing the war arc and the two and three show arcs and painting Archer in such a bad, negative and dark light, the ratings might have improved but to me he was the final nail and a portent of doom. The fat lady of the opera. Dr. Giggles and the Joker wrapped up in one. Rick Berman's revenge on Braga for Nemesis. As I say Brutus and Barrabas.. Though better than JJudas...

You know it reminds me of say a saxiphone player joining the NY philharmonic and being in charge of planning the scheduals and programming only saxaphone concertos and his own music. Well you know the audience is gonna lose interest and not subscribe. More like a harmonica player or a banjo.

You are an incoherent poster with horrible spelling and grammar abilities. Your uninformed rants are particularly annoying. Please, go read Wikipedia and watch a couple episodes of Star Trek and come back when you can carry on an intelligent conversation.

Some people like saxiphone concertos. Or dueling banjos.

Knock it off you two. There's an ignore feature her for a reason. If someone's posting style annoys you please use that rather than addressing it in-thread. Such things can only lead to infractions.

 

[JD]

Well season three was the key season, wasn't it. I think the war arc was wrong to do and he should have brought Braga to task on that. Wasn't he showrunning by then? where we got such beauties as Similitude and his reign began. The nose dive to me definately was the writing's direction and therefore downward turn of the ratings. Had they refrained from not doing the war arc and the two and three show arcs and painting Archer in such a bad, negative and dark light, the ratings might have improved but to me he was the final nail and a portent of doom. The fat lady of the opera. Dr. Giggles and the Joker wrapped up in one. Rick Berman's revenge on Braga for Nemesis. As I say Brutus and Barrabas.. Though better than JJudas...

You know it reminds me of say a saxiphone player joining the NY philharmonic and being in charge of planning the scheduals and programming only saxaphone concertos and his own music. Well you know the audience is gonna lose interest and not subscribe. More like a harmonica player or a banjo.

Ok, do you seriously believe this crap or are you just trying to start arguments for the hell of it? Because at this point you're getting ridiculous, and I'm really starting to believe it's the later.

 

[Mr Silver]

ENT could have lasted much longer had Paramount put it into first-run syndication (like TNG and DS9) rather than pitching it to a network such as UPN. I get pissed off when American networks cancel TV shows because it means they don't have a hope of continuing - even if channels that are here in the UK are drawing strong ratings.

The point of so many television channels is to provide a wide range of interesting programming to the viewer. Just because shows like American Idol and Dancing With The Stars draw massive ratings and win the weekly primetime slots, it doesn't mean that we ALL want to watch shows like that. With the sheer amount of CSI, NCIS and however many else forensic show and their spin offs that are attached to every major channel, surely it's time to create a network specifically for them? This could possibly allow other shows to survive cancellation.

 

[DonIago]

"I get pissed off when American networks cancel TV shows because it means they don't have a hope of continuing"

Tell it to Family Guy.

 

[Darth Duck]

"I get pissed off when American networks cancel TV shows because it means they don't have a hope of continuing"

Tell it to Family Guy.

And Futurama.

 

[ATimson]

ENT could have lasted much longer had Paramount put it into first-run syndication (like TNG and DS9) rather than pitching it to a network such as UPN.

Not really, no. The WB & UPN pretty much killed first-run syndication; the channels that used to show such shows all became affiliates of those two networks, using up their primetime slots.

 

[Sci]

"I get pissed off when American networks cancel TV shows because it means they don't have a hope of continuing"

Tell it to Family Guy.

And Futurama.

Both of which are animated series. Animated shows are easier to resurrect -- drawings don't age, sets don't have to be rebuilt, demands on actors' times are fewer, etc.

 

[MatthiasRussell]

A new animated Trek series anyone?

 

[DimesDan]

With the sheer amount of CSI, NCIS and however many else forensic show and their spin offs that are attached to every major channel, surely it's time to create a network specifically for them? This could possibly allow other shows to survive cancellation.

Well to be fair, CSI, CSI: Miami, CSI:NY, NCIS and NCIS:LA are all shown on the same network, CBS.

 

[Mr Silver]

Well to be fair, CSI, CSI: Miami, CSI:NY, NCIS and NCIS:LA are all shown on the same network, CBS.

Yeah I get that, but what I was suggesting was a network that shows just that kind of programming. CBS is still one of the major US TV networks and I suspect that it's because of all the forensic cop programming that fewer shows are getting a chance.

These forensic cop shows draw very high ratings and as a result, networks are keen to acquire them on their programming schedule. I was arguing earlier for networks carrying a balance of ratings hits and quality television (mixed interest also). The TV business is about money - yes, but it's also obliged to provide a range of television shows that cover all interests. In the UK, we used to be limited to 4 television channels on terrestrial TV. Unless you had Sky or Cable, this was all you would recieve. As a result, these 4 channels competed with their programming and not ratings.

BBC One: Dominated news programming, talk shows and serial dramas.

BBC Two: Dominated natural world documentaries, game shows and lifestyle programming (like cooking and travel)

ITV: Dominated soap operas, light entertainment and chat show programming.

Channel 4: Dominated urban lifestyle programming, factual documentaries, investigative journalism and adult interest.


Before we had digital TV, our networks used types of programming rather than programming itself to compete with other channels. They still competed over ratings (especially with Saturday night entertainment) but it was more about the actual type of programming and being the leader in the market for this type that the competition was about.

 

[DimesDan]

The media and broadcasting landscapes have had a fundamental change with the advent of subscription services, both through the launch of Sky this side of the Atlantic and Cable in North America over the past twenty plus years.

Because of that, even though what you're saying isn't without merit, it is 2011 after all, with so many channels vying for a finite amount of viewers and the paradigm shift in the way that those viewers consume broadcast media, it is unworkable.

Whether it's the BBC, ITV, C4, Five, Sky or the myriad other channels you can have access to through a digibox here or networks in America, ratings are king and for everything apart from the BBC, adverts are queen.

 

[Mr Silver]

The media and broadcasting landscapes have had a fundamental change with the advent of subscription services, both through the launch of Sky this side of the Atlantic and Cable in North America over the past twenty plus years.

Because of that, even though what you're saying isn't without merit, it is 2011 after all, with so many channels vying for a finite amount of viewers and the paradigm shift in the way that those viewers consume broadcast media, it is unworkable.

Whether it's the BBC, ITV, C4, Five, Sky or the myriad other channels you can have access to through a digibox here or networks in America, ratings are king and for everything apart from the BBC, adverts are queen.

This pretty much nails it!

I'm frustrated by this paradigm shift as you put it. I am pretty confident that Internet based broadcasting will become the alternative to the ratings obsessed television networks. I once suggested that CBS should experiment with broadcasting a new Star Trek series online (with advertising). Once the first season was complete, they could re-air on regular television and think about syndication depending on how well it is recieved. If it fails on TV, it can continue online.

 

[Steve Roby]

The tightening of the tie-in reigns

Oh, Ian, not you too!

 

[Therin of Andor]

The tightening of the tie-in reigns

Oh, Ian, not you too!

What? Make a typo? Shore. That's what editors and poofreaders are four.