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Are the New Frontier novels part of the main novelverse?

rfmcdpei

Fleet Captain
Fleet Captain
I ask the question of the title because I've read Blind Man's Bluff and the plot seems out of whack with what's been explored elsewhere.

Briefly, in the short space of time before the departure of the Voyager fleet to the Delta Quadrant, the Doctor and Seven of Nine are drafted to develop a software weapon to destroy Morgan Primus before she can destroy the Federation.

The novels just don't fit. There doesn't seem to be enough time described in Beyer's novels before the fleet's departure for the Doctor and Seven to have a side adventure in Sector 221-G. Seven of Nine is still incapacitated by the voices of the Caeliar and depending heavily on Chakotay to remain functional, again as descrbed by Beyer; in David's novel, Chakotay doesn't make an appearance as Seven makes a more conventionally emotionally strenuous trip to her world of birth. And the novel's ending implies that Seven and the Doctor are moving towards a romantic relationship.

Oh, and only parenthetical mention is made of Excalibur's involvement in fighting off the Borg invasion of 2381, as something that made Command more likely to be slack. I'd have thought that the ship's destruction of a Borg cube that was going to destroy the local starbase would have had more of an impact.

Having read Before Dishonor, I've a suspicion that David is uninterested in paying particular attention to the continuity that's been set up, being more interested in writing what he thinks are good stories. That's fine insofar as the stories that he happens to tell are good ones, which--of course--they very frequently are.

The problems come when his own continuity conflicts with the rest. Before Dishonor made the presence of the potential-filled new characters of Leybenzon, T'Lana, and arguably Kadohata untenable, arguably in ways that didn't conform with their characters or their environments. (Leybenzon was easily the worst: He was willing to torture Crusher to force Picard into surrendering. What the hell? Is Starfleet Security that morally incapable?)

These aren't problems if New Frontier is a separate continuity, at least separate enough that--like the Duaneverse, or other continuities--only the things that other authors want to incorporate get incorporated. Is this a fair assumption?
 
These aren't problems if New Frontier is a separate continuity, at least separate enough that--like the Duaneverse, or other continuities--only the things that other authors want to incorporate get incorporated. Is this a fair assumption?

PAD has probably never been instructed to "make everything fit". When he first started writing ST novels, they were meant to be as standalone as possible. That some of the novelists choose to keep in contact with each other, and beta read each others' material, doesn't mean that PAD should have to work that way. He seems to have a very busy schedule, some crazy deadlines - and, presumably, the recent VOY relaunch novels were being conceived/written at the same time as his NF instalment. Not to mention that many recent novels were commissioned by one editor and the edits completed by others.

If viewing NF as a separate continuity helps you to enjoy the NF novels more, call them a separate continuity.

I'm sure he won't mind if a future ST novelist chooses to feature Dr Selar one day.
 
Eh, it all fits into a "vague history" about as well as the TV series' and movies. Why hold the books to a higher standard of continuity?
 
PAD has probably never been instructed to "make everything fit". When he first started writing ST novels, they were meant to be as standalone as possible.

In 1997? That predates the modern efforts, then?

Also, I take it that my perception of continuity being a major issue institutionally on the publisher's side, as opposed to being something done on a case-by-case basis by authors, is wildly incorrect?

If viewing NF as a separate continuity helps you to enjoy the NF novels more, call them a separate continuity.

Thanks for the explanation!
 
It`s pretty clear that PAD is doing his own thing, and I don't see any problem with that. There's no need for every novel/series to adhere to the same continuity.

ETA:

In 1997? That predates the modern efforts, then?

Also, I take it that my perception of continuity being a major issue institutionally on the publisher's side, as opposed to being something done on a case-by-case basis by authors, is wildly incorrect?

The heightened continuity more or less started with the DS9 relaunch, so 2000/2001 I think, and was pretty much the pet project of former editor Marco Palmieri. Since he has left the ratio between "continuity novels" and stand-alonish titles has shifted back to being more balanced in my opinion.
 
The heightened continuity more or less started with the DS9 relaunch, so 2000/2001 I think, and was pretty much the pet project of former editor Marco Palmieri.

Well, no, it was a joint project of all the editors at the time -- John Ordover on New Frontier, the early VGR post-finale novels and the TNG A Time to... series among others; Marco Palmieri on DS9, Titan, The Lost Era, Vanguard, and other projects; Keith R. A. DeCandido on SCE; Margaret Clark on post-Nemesis TNG, etc. I think that Marco and Keith were the ones who pursued a strong, inclusive continuity the most aggressively, but they weren't alone in it, and they were both building on what Ordover set in motion. Also, I think people tend to forget that Destiny, the work that elevated the interseries continuity to a new level of interconnectedness, was jointly developed/edited by Marco and Margaret.
 
When it comes to New Frontier, I tend to think that they take place in an alternate reality that is just slightly off from the main Novelverse. Peter David's NF stories have never really referenced things that happened in the novels he didn't write, but there have been references in other books to things that have happened in PAD's NF stories.
 
NF works in unison with the other series. PAD told me that after writing Blind Man's Bluff editorial changes had to be made to make it work with the other books. He had to change 7 so her implants were gone and work in why she and the doctor weren't in the delta quadrant.

I agree that BMB makes a strange fit with other books but it still does fit and the editorial controls are still in place.

What I've enjoyed most about NF is the continuity it adds to TOS, including the gods, M'Ress, and Arex. I feel the 2 books about the gods were the best in the series. I love how PAD makes many TOS plots fit in with TNG-style values.
 
And if we cast out the NF series, we have to cast out relaunch novels such as "Before Dishonor" and "Destiny" since Calhoun and the Excalibur appeared in them.

Of course a novel could be written where the Krenim appear to wipe Calhoun, Xenex, and the Excalibur from existence. Fortunately, having posted this, no author who reads this thread can ever write this story! BWA HA HA!!!
 
^That's why I said just slightly off. The characters, and events obviously exist and happened in the main Novelverse, but they just might not be exactly how they were in the New Frontier series.
 
Of course a novel could be written where the Krenim appear to wipe Calhoun, Xenex, and the Excalibur from existence. Fortunately, having posted this, no author who reads this thread can ever write this story! BWA HA HA!!!

Actually, yes, they can. The problem would be if we described exactly HOW they did it. "The Krenim wipe [whatever] from existence" isn't enough to get it banned.
 
^You could say the same about most TOS episodes in the Trek-universe.
Actually, you could say that about any of the series vs. any other. Although TOS and ENT are the most frequently-cited continuity breakers, the entirety of Trek is rife with them. Only as an unspecific and vague history, where "something like" all the episodes and movies happened, does the universe work as a whole.

Otherwise you're crying over Kirk's dad's ship being bigger than his, Scotty forgetting that he was there when Kirk died, the NX-01 getting to Kronos in a day, where the time cops were when X bit of history was altered, everyone forgetting about last weeks' miraculous technobabble solution when it would work just as well here too....
 
Betazoids being able to sense the emotions of Ferengis--except when they can't.

"Bill" Riker.
 
Bill Riker?

As far as the Seven of Nine stuff in NF, that's pretty dissapointing. Did Destiny say anything about Seven having a mental breakdown or did that all come from Full Circle? Is there some wiggle room there for Seven to hold on for a while before having a total meltdown?
 
And all these examples show that inconsistencies and head-scratchers exist in canon works. The situations in NF may not seem to mesh but they are splinters in the eye of the franchise compared to seeming rafters elsewhere.
 
Bill Riker?

As far as the Seven of Nine stuff in NF, that's pretty dissapointing. Did Destiny say anything about Seven having a mental breakdown or did that all come from Full Circle? Is there some wiggle room there for Seven to hold on for a while before having a total meltdown?

It started in "Full Circle," though it was said to have begun immediately at the end of "Destiny." All we actually saw in "Destiny" implied that Seven was fine.

Personally, I think it's less mental gymnastics and fanwank to brush over the references to the Borg attacks being to "Resistance" and "Endgame" and place "Blind Man's Bluff" before "Destiny" rather than try to force it into a time frame it's ostensibly in but not at all suited to.
 
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