HBO/Showtime version of Star Trek
- Thread starter DarthTom
- Start date
A certain amount of puritanism is central to Star Trek. The movies could have been rated R, but weren't. I think a series on premium cable could be great, and if there's no particular reason for swearing (which has apparently died out along with religions and nations) or graphic sex (Kirk putting on his boots gets the point across perfectly), then why include it?
I'm not sure if it would actually hurt a premium cable show to be family-friendly, but it would go against the strategy of premium cable targetting adults, at least in the sophistication of the material, if not in the sex and swearing departments.
I could see a premium cable Star Trek series letting it all hang out in terms of violence and maybe occasionally in terms of nudity (casually depicting naked actors who are portraying alien species that don't have the same clothing habits as humans, for instance) and sex (which could get really interesting since we're talking about non-humanoid species
). But given Starfleet's job description, graphic violence is R-rated element that comes most naturally.
I'm not sure if it would actually hurt a premium cable show to be family-friendly, but it would go against the strategy of premium cable targetting adults, at least in the sophistication of the material, if not in the sex and swearing departments.
I could see a premium cable Star Trek series letting it all hang out in terms of violence and maybe occasionally in terms of nudity (casually depicting naked actors who are portraying alien species that don't have the same clothing habits as humans, for instance) and sex (which could get really interesting since we're talking about non-humanoid species
). But given Starfleet's job description, graphic violence is R-rated element that comes most naturally.
I've always thought that the Star Trek: Vanguard novel series would be great cable-Trek.
You gotta love the...
You gotta love the...
...steamy Vulcan/Klingon lesbian sex.
That might be enough to get it on Starz or Cinemax, but HBO or Showtime would be more demanding in terms of intelligent content that could attract a grownup audience and make them feel like they're getting something worth paying for.
And that is the problem - Star Trek is associated with free TV. Now you're asking people to pay $20/month for it (or if they're already subscribing, to at least not feel like their money is going to waste.) Everyone can get porn on the internet, so that's not going to be nearly enough.
People keep touting Vanguard yet I've never seen anyone explain why HBO or Showtime should be interested in it versus any other possible Star Trek story. How about a one or two sentence description that provides some convincing detail?
And that is the problem - Star Trek is associated with free TV. Now you're asking people to pay $20/month for it (or if they're already subscribing, to at least not feel like their money is going to waste.) Everyone can get porn on the internet, so that's not going to be nearly enough.
People keep touting Vanguard yet I've never seen anyone explain why HBO or Showtime should be interested in it versus any other possible Star Trek story. How about a one or two sentence description that provides some convincing detail?
Well, it is more adult than what we've seen on TV in that the characters act much more like real humans than Trek humans. Having extra-marital affairs, making less than moral choices, keeping secrets and lying, getting shit-faced drunk and belligerent. Despite Trek tech featuring things like warp drive and transporters, I always felt that it's portrayal of humanity was the most far-fetched thing about Trek. None of the characters in Vanguard are perfect. In fact, when the series starts, some of them are downright assholes. Their journey is one to rise up and become better than they were, and I just can't see that happening on standard TV Trek.
Last edited:
Yeah, I think the sanitized-Starfleet approach is the first thing that would need to be jettisoned for cable TV (basic or premium), in terms of the characters' personal foibles and failings. Not to the extent of making them unpalatable, though. Ron Moore's approach on BSG would be going too far.
So assuming the characters are likable but flawed, what would the series actually be about? In between the character-development scenes, I mean.
So assuming the characters are likable but flawed, what would the series actually be about? In between the character-development scenes, I mean.
What, like, in terms of theme or something?
The Ron Moore Galactica is a roadmap for where an adult Trek could go. All the original elements are still there, although with a Trek show I'd like it to be more in line with what has gone before rather than yet another bloody reboot / re-imagining.
If you take the grittier end of DS9 and cross it with Galactica with a bit more sex and violence, you are there. And let's not forget, the whole point of it would be to tell some more innovative / challenging STORIES.
I would think it would probably fit best in the JJ-verse and so it would still not to do what most hardcore fans want though, i.e. carry on after DS9 / Voyager.
If you take the grittier end of DS9 and cross it with Galactica with a bit more sex and violence, you are there. And let's not forget, the whole point of it would be to tell some more innovative / challenging STORIES.
I would think it would probably fit best in the JJ-verse and so it would still not to do what most hardcore fans want though, i.e. carry on after DS9 / Voyager.
The series could be about the not-so-gretty side of the Federation which doesn't involve fancy starships, utopian worlds, and neat, clean-shaven officers. But it does involve rusty cargo vessels, dangerous criminal organizations like the Orion syndicate, slave trades, struggling colony worlds, and governments that benefit the least from the Federation unlike the governments who benefit the most from the Federation like Earth and Vulcan.
I'm not asking for a Star Trek remake of Firefly. But, maybe something like AMC's The Walking Dead. A group of characters fighting to survive on a daily basis while dealing with personal problems of their own. Over time, they become a dysfunctional family. The group of characters could either be the shady crew of a cargo ship, people living on a colony world, or members of a criminal organization locked in a war with a dangerous rival.
I'm not asking for a Star Trek remake of Firefly. But, maybe something like AMC's The Walking Dead. A group of characters fighting to survive on a daily basis while dealing with personal problems of their own. Over time, they become a dysfunctional family. The group of characters could either be the shady crew of a cargo ship, people living on a colony world, or members of a criminal organization locked in a war with a dangerous rival.
You know the funny thing about Star Trek exploration? It's actually boring, and it's also not really what TOS was ever about.
TOS was all about Kirk and the gang playing space cop, space soldier and space diplomat for the benefit of the Federation. Those episode types, plus the personal stories and the ones where the ship/personnel are under some kind of attack, make up pretty much all the good episodes. Whatever actual exploration ever occurred was incidental.
ENT's first two seasons were exploration, taken out of the context of Starfleet needing to be space cop/soldier/diplomat for the Federation. And that exposed how boring and pointless exploration for its own sake really is, when it's just a visit to one cliched planet of the week after another, with no purpose other than maybe tourism.
If a Showtime series returned to the TOS premise of space cop/soldier/diplomat, then I could see that working. But it has very little to do with actual space exploration.
But really, my original comment was in regards to Vanguard. What is that about? Is it the space cop/soldier/diplomat routine? Has it found a way to make actual exploration interesting (which it could be, if more effort and imagination were devoted to the planets and cultures being discovered.)
Agreed, with the caveats that DS9 shortchanged the "cop" and "diplomat" aspects of Starfleet and leaned too heavily on "soldier." I'd like to see a return to a TOS-style balance. And BSG really was too glum and negative to be a good Star Trek template. I'd delete that aspect altogether.
I wouldn't put much effort into making exploration interesting, because that sounds like too much work - needing to invent fascinating cultures every week in lieu of the dull Planets-of-the-Week? If they can come up with a couple really good new cultures, they'd be doing good, but that's not enough to constitute a series' worth of exploration.
Last edited:
I suppose I could just refer you to the back-cover descriptions of the books, but basically Starfleet has discovered traces of an ancient, incredibly powerful technology in a remote area of unclaimed space, right inbetween Klingon and Tholian space. They move into that area of space under the guise of a colonization effort that is actually just a cover for the secret dealings that the Federation is having.
Several starships are stationed at Starbase 47, aka Vanguard, from which they explore these ancient mysteries and search for new traces of the ancient tech. Of course, things are complicated when the original owners of the tech, thought long extinct, return and want it back.
The secrecy is important, of course, because of the neighbors on either side, the Klingons and the Tholians, whom which the Federation would rather not see get their hands on the tech. The lengths to which the Federation goes to keep its secrets include planting falsified evidence for a reporter to find in order to discredit him when he got too close to something that Starfleet wanted kept quiet, and not informing colonists of the very real dangers they faced from this ancient tech and its creators. Of course, all of this eventually blows up in Starfleets face, and one major character gives up his Starfleet career in disgrace for divulging classified information in order to inform the general public what is actually happening.
Last edited:
Which would be futile since I'd never bother to look them up. And neither would anyone who a Vanguard series was pitched to. They'd want to see a nice, cogent summary that convinces them to read more after the first sentence.
Sounds promising. That basic premise would work nicely as a central serialized element that a new show could return to, inbetween one-off episodes that deal with the usual Starfleet business. But for that to be the only plotline would be too limiting. Maybe it could be dealt with every three or four episodes.
I wouldn't make the pitch any more complex than "mysterious powerful technology fought over by galactic powers = serialized element; Starfleet playing space cop/soldier/diplomat and personal stories = episodic element." That sounds like a good structure for a show that runs 13 episodes per season on cable, with enough of a mix of topics that it won't burn through its material too quickly.
Why is that an advantage? Ewan McGregor would never do TV.
I liked how the writers made an attempt to make the events of the Vanguard series "count" in the grand scheme of Trek history, as it often seems that almost every important event in the Federation revolves around a ship named Enterprise.
Examples-- The ancient tech in question becomes the basis for advanced 24th century medical tech such as dermal regenrerators, and is also the basis for Star Trek II's Project: Genesis tech (In fact, a young Carol Marcus is a supporting character). Also, we see the origins of the Nimbus III "Planet of Galactic Peace" colony from Star Trek V.
Examples-- The ancient tech in question becomes the basis for advanced 24th century medical tech such as dermal regenrerators, and is also the basis for Star Trek II's Project: Genesis tech (In fact, a young Carol Marcus is a supporting character). Also, we see the origins of the Nimbus III "Planet of Galactic Peace" colony from Star Trek V.
It gives you faces and voices to imagine in your head while reading. Definitely adds something to the experience.
I'm still not sure whether Diego Reyes is Edward James Olmos or Tommy Lee Jones. I've heard both and they both work for the character.
Jones is an old school Trekkie, so that's pretty plausible.
Does the book actually instruct you to visualize Ewan McGregor?
Writers always have the challenge of giving the reader a visualization of their characters and choosing details carefully to give them just enough info. I don't see why the writer choosing to do this with a real person as a starting point is any better than the usual system of using a person they've dreamt up in their imaginations, or the character is based on their cousin, or whatever. The description they provide in the book is the real test of their creative powers, and regardless of who they are thinking of when they write it, the image in my mind is not necessarily going to be identical or even close.
Back to the premise: if the technology is something that cannot be moved, then that would form a good central region for the wider story to revolve around. It's basically the same idea as DS9's wormhole - an immobile structure that offers huge strategic advantages to whoever controls it, and therefore is the center of dramatic conflict.
David Mack's casting choices aren't named anywhere in the book. He named who he visualized and heard in his head, or "Who I Would Cast In The Principal Roles", on his annotations page. One would assume that a person would have already read the book and formed their own mental images before reading annotations.
Does the book actually instruct you to visualize Ewan McGregor?
Writers always have the challenge of giving the reader a visualization of their characters and choosing details carefully to give them just enough info. I don't see why the writer choosing to do this with a real person as a starting point is any better than the usual system of using a person they've dreamt up in their imaginations, or the character is based on their cousin, or whatever. The description they provide in the book is the real test of their creative powers, and regardless of who they are thinking of when they write it, the image in my mind is not necessarily going to be identical or even close.
Exactly. The ancient tech is scattered randomly throughout a area of unclaimed space known as the Taurus Reach.
Similar threads
