Phantom Menace is the best Prequel.

[TremblingBluStar]

He didn't send Maul to eliminate the two Jedi just to have a lightsaber battle...he wanted them eliminated because they were investigating the blockade and becoming close to exposing who was behind. Or at least he feared that result.

They were investigating the blockade? Since when? I thought at that point their goal was to capture the viceroy? Why would Palpatine care if this happens or not? The viceroy had no idea who he was, clearly, as when he was captured the Jedi still had no clue who was behind it all..

 

[Admiral_Young]

They were sent in secret by Chancellor Valorum to talk with the Trade Federation in hopes of bringing the blockade to a close. The Trade Federation got scared, Sidious ordered them to get rid of the Jedi and then the rest of the events of the film happened. This is what I meant. Perhaps investigation wasn't the correct word. They did stumble upon a greater mystery though than what they were originally sent.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

The function that Darth Maul serves in the story is that he kills Gui-Gon, which paves the way for Anakin to be trained as a Jedi, in accordance with Qui-Gon's last words and I presume also by way of Obi-Wan's promotion. Since Darth Sidious is prescient, I'm going to suppose until shown otherwise that that's the reason that Darth Maul is sent in - to trigger events that assure Anakin's training as a Jedi.

 

[TremblingBluStar]

Since Darth Sidious is prescient, I'm going to suppose until shown otherwise that that's the reason that Darth Maul is sent in - to trigger events that assure Anakin's training as a Jedi.

That, at least, makes more sense than the explanation given on screen - which wasn't.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Since Darth Sidious is prescient, I'm going to suppose until shown otherwise that that's the reason that Darth Maul is sent in - to trigger events that assure Anakin's training as a Jedi.

That, at least, makes more sense than the explanation given on screen - which wasn't.

Fair enough, it's not spelled out, and it's just my wankery.

However, I don't assume that anything a Sith says is true. Whatever Darth Sidious tells Darth Maul that his mission is can't be the full story. And I wouldn't expect Darth Sidious to tell Darth Maul, "It's time for your suicide mission."

I expect that Darth Maul would have aspirations of someday overthrowing Darth Sidious, being his apprentice. Sooner or later Darth Sidious would have to deal with a powerful killing machine before he gets too powerful. Darth Sidious was really good in a lightsaber duel, but he wasn't the best.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Yeah Sith lie to one another...which was kind of my point earlier on about Dooku. Look at his facial expression when Palpatine tells Anakin to kill him. He's literally shocked. It's a great moment in the film and one of a few that stand out to me in the trilogy.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Yes, well said. Back-stabbed!

 

[TremblingBluStar]

Yeah Sith lie to one another...which was kind of my point earlier on about Dooku. Look at his facial expression when Palpatine tells Anakin to kill him. He's literally shocked. It's a great moment in the film and one of a few that stand out to me in the trilogy.

I did like that part - though it makes you wonder just how smart Dooku is if he expected Palpatine to come to his defense.

 

[Admiral_Young]

That's the thing though...he thought he was smart but he wasn't...Palpatine managed to dupe even the great and wise Jedi Master really completing Dooku's down fall. This is another reason why I don't think fans give enough credit to Dooku for being interesting. He is complex if you look at him as more than just Palpatine's apprentice. He's multi-layered.

 

[DWF]

Yeah Sith lie to one another...which was kind of my point earlier on about Dooku. Look at his facial expression when Palpatine tells Anakin to kill him. He's literally shocked. It's a great moment in the film and one of a few that stand out to me in the trilogy.

I did like that part - though it makes you wonder just how smart Dooku is if he expected Palpatine to come to his defense.

I don't think Dooku thought he'd need Palpatine's help nor did he realize it was all a test for Anakin til it was too late.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Count Dooku is multi-layered and potentially extremely interesting. As a fallen Jedi of major importance, apparently second only to Anakin, Attack of the Clones should have focused and elaborated on Dooku much more than it did. The fault lies in one of the writers for not emphasizing the character enough. (Not sure which writer to blame though. )

 

[RoJoHen]

So, apparently I now own both trilogies on Blu-Ray. Damn my boredom and impulsive spending! I blame this thread.

 

[DarthPipes]

Count Dooku is multi-layered and potentially extremely interesting. As a fallen Jedi of major importance, apparently second only to Anakin, Attack of the Clones should have focused and elaborated on Dooku much more than it did. The fault lies in one of the writers for not emphasizing the character enough. (Not sure which writer to blame though. )

Sadly, unless your Anakin, Star Wars is never going to focus on something like Dooku's background and why he left the Jedi. I wish The Clone Wars would spend an episode or two on it.

 

[Thestral]

Why did she resist his advances for so long and act downright annoyed and creeped out by him if he were influencing her from the beginning?

Simple. The more time he spent with her, the more she was influenced - hence her being less and less annoyed/creeped and eventually turned on by his murderin' ways.

But for this to work, a different actor would have had to have been cast as Anakin (one with actual charisma - looks alone doesn't make a guy attractive) and of course, a very different attitude on the part of the writer/director.

Playing the Rewrite the PT So It Makes Some Tiny Amount of Sense game for the 347th time, what if we make this a variation on the Faust story?

The nice thing about my solution is it doesn't require either rewriting or recasting, just looking at the events of the movies in a very different, much more twisted light.

On the one hand recasting/rewriting would make more sense, because it would make my explanation look like an extension of his natural charm. On the other hand, keeping the writing/acting as is makes it clear that we're something something supernatural, cause how otherwise could that whole romance happen?

It just seems like a rather convenient excuse that the darkside is able to do whatever a sith wants it to. I also think that changing Anakin and Padme's relationship for the better would have to involve them being more in love, not less in love. There was plenty of sinister going on for Anakin, and I really dont think he needed any more. As terrible as it was presented, his apparent relationship with Padme is the one area of the films in which Anakin can come off as even something of a good guy. Also, Anakin is 'apparently' still a good guy in AOTC.

Well, psychic manipulation (or inspiration for a more positive spin?) is a pretty common trope in fiction, so I don't see it as too terribly much an excuse. Think psychic Stockholm Syndrom. You can even read it as a passive thing to take away some of the sinister edge, and if you assume he didn't actually go darkside until the sandpeople massacre, she was already enthralled by him. I'm not advocating changes to things, I'm just advocating a different reading of what was presented. I'm willing to make it more sinister and suggest an even darker fall, and I think it fits what we see better.

 

[Uxi]

I It's been made very clear in the movies that one is Sith because one craves power and has an insatiable need to dominate the galaxy. It is probably through a superiority complex that this happens. It is also being touched by the Dark Side that fuels this path...

But, Anakin didn't become a Sith because he wanted to rule the galaxy. He just wanted to save Padme, and though that he was doing what was necessary to make that happen.

Similarly, Luke didn't flirt with the dark side because he had a lust for power. He simply succumbed to hatred, which is apparently a one way track to Sithdom.

That was just the "first hit." Once they get hooked, they'll get on the ruling the galaxy kick. Anakin was already saying that and trying to sell it to Padme on Mustafar before he sees Obi-Wan. Vader tried to sell Luke the same idea after he lopped his hand off.

Since Darth Sidious is prescient, I'm going to suppose until shown otherwise that that's the reason that Darth Maul is sent in - to trigger events that assure Anakin's training as a Jedi.

That, at least, makes more sense than the explanation given on screen - which wasn't.

Fair enough, it's not spelled out, and it's just my wankery.

However, I don't assume that anything a Sith says is true. Whatever Darth Sidious tells Darth Maul that his mission is can't be the full story. And I wouldn't expect Darth Sidious to tell Darth Maul, "It's time for your suicide mission."

I expect that Darth Maul would have aspirations of someday overthrowing Darth Sidious, being his apprentice. Sooner or later Darth Sidious would have to deal with a powerful killing machine before he gets too powerful. Darth Sidious was really good in a lightsaber duel, but he wasn't the best.

Maul seems clearly built to killing Jedi and probably loads of them in the Clone Wars and perhaps beginning the Purge sooner.

WRT TPM, I'm sure Palpatine could get a few more sympathy votes with a dead and martyred Amidala either en route to stirring up the Clone Wars a bit earlier. Maul's purpose is to make her dead, which is what Qui-Gon said his feelings told him in the beginning.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Perhaps I am mistaken, but I don't recall Darth Sidious ever giving orders to kill the Queen. However, I do recall him giving orders to force her to sign the treaty. On the other hand, Darth Sidious did specifically tell Darth Maul to move against the Jedi first. From http://www.imsdb.com/scripts/Star-Wars-The-Phantom-Menace.html:

DARTH SIDIOUS : Move against the Jedi first...you will then have no difficulty taking the Queen back to Naboo, where she will sign the treaty.

Those are the orders given to Darth Maul are they not? Why would Darth Maul disobey those orders willfully and try to kill the Queen? If the Jedi Council comes to the conclusion that killing the Queen is his objective, I believe they must be mistaken, probably because their ability to see with prescience is clouded.

From the same source (I'm not sure if the film is identical though, but it's certainly close):

QUI-GON : ...my only conclusion can be that it was a Sith Lord.
MACE WINDU : A Sith Lord?!?
KI-ADI : Impossible! The Sith have been extinct for a millenium.
YODA : The very Republic is threatened, if involved the Sith are.
MACE WINDU : I do not believe they could have returned without us knowing.
YODA : Hard to see, the dark side is. Discover who this assassin is, we must.
KI-ADI : I sense he will reveal himself again.
MACE WINDU : This attack was with purpose, that is clear, and I agree the Queen is the target.
YODA : With this Naboo queen you must stay, Qui-Gon. Protect her.
MACE WINDU : We will use all our resources here to unravel this mystery and discover the identity of your attacker... May the Force be with you.
YODA : May the Force be with you.

Mace is clearly in error about the Sith returning, why not in error about more?

In fact, the only reason I can see that the Jedi Council has to suppose that Darth Maul is an assassin is because he attacked Qui-Gon. He behaves like an assassin to kill Jedi; he has been ordered to move against Jedi. That is his function. As to assuming his function is to kill the Queen as well, if the Jedi believed it, based on what we know of the conversations between the Sith, that belief is a mistake.

Unless of course I am mistaken and I am overlooking something?

 

[Admiral_Young]

^ You are correct that Sidious wanted Amidala to sign the treaty. There was no mention about killing her out right but I'm sure that option was still open to him. Mace isn't wrong perse...but is ignorant along with the rest of the Jedi Council with regards to the return of the Sith. Not to mention arrogant since he says that he doesn't think they would return without them knowing. Again this line reinforces that the dark side is powerful enough to cloud the light, provide distraction. Arrogance, ignorance, overconfidence, all of these things are factoring into Palpatine's rise. The Dark Side fuels it's self from these thing.

But to your question CorporalCaptain no Maul was not sent to kill Padme...

 

[Eddie Roth]

I expect that Darth Maul would have aspirations of someday overthrowing Darth Sidious, being his apprentice. Sooner or later Darth Sidious would have to deal with a powerful killing machine before he gets too powerful. Darth Sidious was really good in a lightsaber duel, but he wasn't the best.

Isn't that why he keeps switching apprentices? He trains them and keeps them for as long as they don't yet pose a threat to him, then he finds someone else to take over? He wanted Anakin more than Dooku because he was supposedly more powerful than the old man, alright. Besides, Dooku had outlasted his usefulness - he had to be the Saddam Hussein to Palpatine's Bush 43 in their orchestrated war that was designed to do one thing only: cement Palpatine's power as a dictator. Once that was in sight, the war could end by Dooku dying.

But why did he want Luke more than Vader? Had Vader fallen behind expectations after his "accident"? Was Luke so attractive to him because he was playing hard to get? Or did he sense that Vader was now at the point where he was inevitably going to try to overthrow him?

 

[Admiral_Young]

Palpatine wanted Luke because he was young, impressionable, powerful, and probably because he wasn't not broken down or possessing mechanical parts like his father (except for his droid hand of course). Palpatine saw in Luke the same thing he saw in Anakin except without the latter's flaws.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Dark Side: The Next Generation is about the only idea that makes sense to me. Maybe Vader was going to die eventually and couldn't have children anymore? Maybe Luke's midi-chl *pow* *boom* *smash*

Sorry. What I meant to say was, I guess maybe Luke had at least as much potential as Vader, so I agree with Admiral_Young there. From what we see, Luke might even have been more of a natural than Anakin. Blowing up the first Death Star was really fancy.

The evident progression of ever more powerful apprentices we saw for Sidious might suggest that maybe Luke had the greatest potential. Or, as Admiral_Young pointed out, Luke was certainly not damaged goods. Or, perhaps the Emperor wants to make them fight it out to see which one is stronger, in addition to whether Luke will turn.

I have the feeling though that he expected Luke to win.